S2EP25-Kathryne Imabayashi-Raising Boys: The Untold Secrets to Future Gentlemen!

Herb: 00:00:22

Introducing Kathryne Imabayashi. Kathryne is an experienced educator, parenting coach, speaker and author dedicated to supporting parents and teachers in raising boys who grow into emotionally healthy, confident and compassionate men.

With over 40 years in education across Canada, Japan, Lebanon,Thailand, Georgia and Qatar, Kathryne has worked as a teacher, principal and school director in a wide range of cultural and educational educational settings. She is the founder of Sonhood Coaching where she empowers parents and educators to better understand boys unique emotional and developmental needs.

Kathryne shares her insights through one on one coaching, live workshops and online events. She also hosts the podcast Unlocking the Parenting Code, all about boys, featuring real conversations with parents and experts from around the world.

We were on her podcast and Kathryne is the author of the book Raising Boys who Become Remarkable Men. Intentionally pairing your parenting your son from birth to eight.

A heartfelt and practical guide for parents navigating the early years with their sons. Kathryne there is more to her bio, but that's just a touch. Be sure to read the rest of it in the show notes below.

But Kathryne, that is, that is amazing. Start and welcome.

And it's kind of funny that you listed all of these countries but then you listed a state in the middle of that and I'm kidding, I know Georgia is also a country. But welcome to our show. I appreciate you coming on coming on today.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:01:51

Thank you, thank you for having me and thank you for being on my show beforehand. So I'm excited to be here with you today on the other side.

Kristina: 00:02:00

Yeah, exactly.

Because as we're getting, you know, the information and stuff from when we were on your show, now you're over here, it's going to be great because now we get to hear your view on the other side of what we were just talking about all those boy things and how to raise confident boys. And as you know, part of our mission is to raise families who are very fully developed, very capable and ready to help their children grow and be.

And so when we get to talk to experts like you who have such vast experience with a specific population like boys, it's going to be even more helpful for some of our families who are like, I have a little bit of a wild one. I wonder what I can do with this guy. So thank you again for being on the show.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:02:42

My pleasure. Completely.

Kristina: 00:02:45

So besides some of the things that were in your bio, what was maybe that one pinnacle moment or that really big event that really like, you know, I need to start sharing more about raising boys and helping to raise boys with other people. What was that kind of turning point.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:02:59

For you There was a particular point, and it was when our son was somewhere between three and four and we were living in Japan at the time. And on a Saturday morning, I took him fishing. He wanted to go fishing.

It was a beautiful day, his dad was working, so the two of us went on this little fishing expedition. And it was a little creek river, little river creek that was a little bit off the road in a wooded area. But it was beautiful.

I was living in Japan, didn't think about, you know, I wasn't concerned about our safety and, and we were just going for a nice morning together. We got down there, we got set up, it was beautiful. And after we were there for a little bit, there was movement out of the corner of my eye.

And I looked up and coming down the path, it was a tree lined path, and coming down this little path was a gang of five or six young boys. And in that moment, without any thinking, my feeling was really guttural. It was really an instinctive reaction and it was total fear.

And it was like, well, how there's a gang coming down, how if there's trouble, how am I going to protect my son? How am I gonna protect myself? And it was just that quick and that immediate and that intense.

Well, the boys came down and they ended up being the same age group that I had taught all year, that particular year at school. And so they were finishing elementary and that summer was the summer in between elementary and middle school.

So I know very well that that's a time of quite. It can be really quick growth spurts for these young boys. So these boys had bigger bodies, but truly inside there was still very much little boys.

So they came down, you know, spent the rest of the morning with us. It was a beautiful time. There was no reason for me to have, you know, been afraid of anything. And it was just, it was lovely.

There was no, you know, negative impact whatsoever. So that night, you know, after the day had all finished, that could have been the end of it and I wouldn't be here today.

But I, I really wanted to understand myself. I. I work on myself all the time and I couldn't quite get a handle on why did I react that way.

I had nothing in my background that would have triggered something. I wasn't like. There was nothing, nothing made sense.

And it was really, really bothering me that I couldn't get the answer to this question in my own thinking. And then I had a thought. And that thought was, what if my little guy is three right now? So in 10 years or 15 years or 20 years.

Is it possible that he is going to cause the same reaction in another mom, in another woman, and that that reaction is solely based on the fact that he's a boy? Not what he's doing, nothing, just he's a boy and he is causing that reaction.

And when I thought of the possibility of someone being afraid of my boy for those reasons, I thought, something's wrong with this picture and I don't know what it is, but I am going to learn about it and I'm going to try to make the world of my little boy and then all the little boys that I can possibly touch better because of that understanding. So that's how it all started.

Kristina: 00:07:01

Wow.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:07:02

Yeah.

Kristina: 00:07:02

I mean, that experience. And was it partially, do you think, because you were in another country, even though you had lived there for a while or just because.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:07:12

No, because I think it would have been worse if I was in my own country. I, you know, living here, I don't have a. A sense of fear about my personal safety.

Kristina: 00:07:29

Right.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:07:31

So, no, I don't think that was connected with at all. I think it was just a very deeply ingrained unconscious bias that I didn't realize that I had.

Kristina: 00:07:43

Yeah. And in a way that makes sense because I mean, what are we taught as American women? To always be careful if a big group of men or whatever come near?

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:07:52

Right.

Kristina: 00:07:53

It's like, well, wait a second, what's going to happen? Kind of thing.

And even though they were boys is like this, that those beginning stages, and like you said, they were bigger than in size, than where they were kind of maturity wise and things like that. You don't know that right away.

Yeah, but I love how it turned out that you guys end up spending the rest like the afternoon together and having a great time.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:08:11

That's.

Kristina: 00:08:12

That's awesome.

Herb: 00:08:13

But guys, guys tend to have a slightly different response to that. Sorry, I sneezed for a little bit uncomfortable.

But so when you were describing that story, what went through my mind was it's like sizing up defensive patterns, how to move. And so it was. There wasn't a fear. There was. There was.

And again, even if they're friends, there's a lot of times it's like you just set up, it's like, okay, this is coming. How do I protect? And so it, again, that's kind of an ingrained thing in guys as well. It's like, okay, protect and.

Or if there's no one there, it's like run, because then you live. So just kind of weird.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:08:54

It's like that's true.

Herb: 00:08:55

Die to protect or you run if there's no reason for it. So.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:08:58

Yeah, that's true.

Herb: 00:09:00

That's that. So you, you kind of go into, into a fear shape and look at that. And in me it's like, okay, attack, defend, pay attention long enough.

And, and so it's. Yeah. A whole, a whole different kind of a paradigm for boys.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:09:15

Exactly, exactly. And that's part of the problem is that we don't recognize those differences.

Kristina: 00:09:22

Yeah. And we want to make sure that we're helping all of our families understand that. Yeah.

Our, our young men, our gentlemen, our, Our boys come through at things a little bit differently than, like, us as women, as moms, etc. Yeah.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:09:35

Yeah.

Kristina: 00:09:35

So as you raise your son, how did that kind of inform more of how you raised him later and how you started sharing with other parents and families?

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:09:47

Well, I think from the beginning, I was an older mom when he was born, so he was kind of like this miracle child. I also was really familiar and felt confident and competent as far as females go.

I had done a lot of work understanding, you know, like, I went through the women's lib movement. I have always been into, you know, trying to understand what's my. What's my path as a woman, what's my power as a woman. And, and so I felt.

And I was raised in a family of predominantly female, so there were six of us, six girl and one brother in the middle. So I felt I had a really good handle on females.

So when he was a boy, it was like, well, this is going to be fun because I have no idea what I'm doing.

Like, as far as I'd had lots of experience, I'd been in the classroom for a long time by that point, and I felt, I understood and I knew where I gravitated towards, so I was excited. But I, it wasn't like I wasn't going in with some preconceived ideas.

I wasn't so worried about putting my emotional baggage from my own past onto him. So it was with excitement and curiosity, really, that that whole thing started. It was after that happened.

I wouldn't say there was a before and an after, because when, when our children are really young and because they're. We are really the focal part of their world and we have control of their world. It's, it's.

There are some distinctions, of course, between genders, but the younger they are, the more commonalities I think you, you have as a parent, like, as parenting. So having come across this when he was that young, I think set the stage for me to parent from that point.

So I think from that point of him getting, you know, into four or five years old, moving into the, you know, institutionalized education, I think that's where there would have been a divide in how I was parenting. So I just feel like it was good timing that it happened when it did.

And I think what it did was having that awareness put me, you know, it was kind of like being fine tuned.

It was like when you, that example that, you know, when you decide you're going to buy, you know, a red Jeep, you see, all of a sudden you see red jeeps everywhere, whereas you didn't see them before. And it was kind of the same thing. Once there was an awareness every in me.

And as I was learning more about the, where the, the issues were, I started seeing it everywhere. So of course that, that impacts how you're parenting.

Herb: 00:12:58

So what were some of the issues that you saw? What were some of the issues that our parents might see and how might they start to correct the. Or.

Kristina: 00:13:11

Or approach it differently?

Herb: 00:13:12

Approach it differently?

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:13:16

Some of the things it just really, it was. They were eye openers to me.

I kept running into situations where it felt like people were making the assumption that my son was going to be the aggressive one and their daughter was going to be the meek and mild that needed to be protected.

And there were a few occasions, I remember one in particular, and we had a teaching couple friend that they had a daughter exactly the same age as our son. And I remember the mom and her daughter and myself and my son. We went to their place right after school one day and the two kids were in the bedroom.

They had all the toys out. They were playing this little girl in particular.

And I love the parents, like, I didn't know the dad that well, but had a very good relationship with the mom. And the little girl was really strong minded, independent, a bit of a.

I wouldn't say a tomboy, but very definitely knew her voice and could, you know, she was leader, I guess is the soft way to say that. Um, but I remember the kids were in the bedroom. They, they had all the.

I don't know what they had out, but they were really playing well and there was no conflict. There was like they were really well. And myself and the other mom were just, you know, in the living room, could hear everything. Like there was not.

There was nothing. There was nothing.

And the dad came home about an hour later and he immediately went in and told the kids they had to come out that they couldn't be in there on their own.

And, you know, there were just a few other things that were said that really made me think, he thinks my son could possibly, you know, hurt his daughter. And I kind of felt the other way. I was more concerned, is my son going to be able to stand up to her?

But it was kind of, that was one of the first times that it was just really clear.

But then I see it in the parks, any kind of public setting, if you have a sandbox and you've got two little boys and two little girls, if something happens and that little girl cries, it's going to be that little boy's fault. Even if it's not, it's going to be.

So there was a lot of those things that just started coming to mind in that once, especially in the lower elementary years at school, that was an area that was. Even though that was my area, I knew that area. But it's different when your child is in like when you're the parent, not the teacher.

It's a different view, different lens to look at it all. And there were just so many things, especially in kindergarten, I remember, and he had a beautiful teacher in kindergarten.

So I'm not, you know, doing that one.

Herb: 00:16:36

Just before it goes too far, I would like to jump in a little bit.

And at that age, just from, from how I would have approached it as well, it wouldn't have been that I was afraid that your son was going to hurt my daughter. It's that at later ages, it's not really appropriate for young men and young ladies to be alone together in a room.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:16:56

Absolutely.

Herb: 00:16:57

Set that boundary. As a young person, you get ahead of the curve and as they, they retain that respect for girls and for that boundary.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:17:08

So, but what's yours, but what's your assumption there? Like, what's, what's the assumption.

The assumption that you're putting on those two children in, in my opinion, the assumption is boys are toxic, girls need to be protected. That's the assumption and I think a mistaken one. I agree.

Herb: 00:17:30

Like, I wouldn't agree with the toxic part of that, but on the other aspect of it, again, that is kind of again, built into our DNA until very recently in modern society, it was about protection and it was about being able to provide and protect.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:17:47

Yeah, absolutely.

Herb: 00:17:48

That, that, that is a. We, you know, we, we talk about that as if it's, is if that's like, oh, that's like long time ago. That's only like a person and a half ago.

That's, that's like really recent in, in terms of, of history. And so we tend to forget about that in our modern society. But there is that inborn protection that again, guys come with.

It's like a boy who's never will, will start opening up doors for people. It's just kind of natural. It's kind of, it's kind of the way things are. So again, it wouldn't, it wouldn't have been that.

I thought, oh, my son is going to grow up and do that. It's, it's like again, there's propriety. There's, there's other cultural reasons to it than, than just dominance and fear and power and force.

There's, there's other respect aspects of it. There's, there's the protection of the girl and it's like don't teach the girl to be alone with guys like that at an early age.

So there's, there's all sorts of aspects to it beyond fear that, that my son would have hurt your daughter or my, my daughter would have been hurt by your son. So from a guy's perspective, it is really a lot more complex in that situation.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:19:03

So, so I agree with your age. I, I agree. Age wise, I think when children start to get older, I think you build on it.

If you have toddlers together, you're not, you're not thinking that way. No, no, you're not. You're thinking about them as pure, innocent kids.

Herb: 00:19:21

Right.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:19:23

So that changes as they get older and have more exposure and they start developmentally get to different, different stages when the child starts to have, you know, the body awareness, when they, when they actually start to go through puberty and adolescence. Of course, all of those things are really important in understanding both genders. I agree with that.

And establishing high morals and respect on both sides from a young age just as better human beings. But two five year olds playing together in a room, door open, parents right there. No, I don't think that that's an appropriate response.

I think that is a response coming from personal preconceived ideas and assumptions. Probably not even recognized.

Kristina: 00:20:23

Very possible. Yeah. So then, and again, I guess I go back to the cultural thing. Was, was it the, another. Is it a Japanese family? Was it an American family? What?

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:20:37

No, actually it was. Actually, I think they were a Canadian family. The mom was Canadian for sure.

Kristina: 00:20:45

Yeah.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:20:45

The father was either Canadian or American, I'm not sure. But they were expats, you know, here with us as well.

Kristina: 00:20:51

Living in Japan also. Yeah, yeah. I just, I just love the whole Japanese connection. I lived in Japan for a year as an exchange student in high school.

So I understand a lot of what you're talking about with the families and the traditions and the cultures and. And all of that kind of thing. Yeah. Oh, man. So did you only have the one son?

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:21:09

I can't remember. We did. Blessed with one. Would have liked to have more, but that wasn't in the cards. But we were very lucky to have one.

Kristina: 00:21:18

Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. And then as he got older, did you move around?

Did you have other places that you live that helped influence some of his upbringing and stuff?

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:21:29

We finished his elementary school here, and then we went to Beirut to Lebanon for his middle school and high school. Wow.

Kristina: 00:21:41

So another whole nother culture and the way men and women react and everything in that.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:21:47

Well, and one of the. One of the deciding factors to. To making that move was, was that society's view of children and family.

So that was something that, you know, I intentionally made that choice based on. On their concept of family.

Kristina: 00:22:10

So when you're working with families, when you're helping families look at the, you know, the role of boys and how to raise boys a little bit differently, what's one of the concepts that you really want to help them understand and bring forward to the families?

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:22:25

Well, I think the hardest thing is, is understanding your own unconscious gender bias. Because until you are curious enough to look into that, you.

Most people, or many people, I won't say most people, many people, myself included, think they don't have those, you know, biases, those, you know, like. I thought I was quite evolved, you know, as far as gender goes. I'd been working with children for a long time, and I was conscious.

I was aware that there are issues in society because of stereotyping, but I didn't think I had any. I thought. I've thought about it. I. You know, I've gone through a few different stages.

You know, like one of the stages in the 80s was thinking that children.

That it was neutral, that there were no differences, and if we all treated our children the same, provided them with the same opportunities, that we would eliminate some of the problems about stereotyping. So I went through that and tried it, actually tried and watched it, you know, with my son and my best friend's daughter and.

And understanding more, learning more.

It's kind of like there are differences, but if we don't recognize that there are differences and that there are challenges and there are gifts, then we are not moving forward and we're not understanding the challenges that our little Boys go through.

Kristina: 00:24:11

Yeah. It's so important because. Yeah. I mean, well, we just know, you know, biologically they're wired differently. Right.

And then, like Herb said, some of our pre. Not modern, anthropomorphic, anthropological. Yeah.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:24:27

Way back when.

Kristina: 00:24:28

Right. How we would either, you know, act or protect or whatever. It's important to really look at and make sure that we're understanding those. Yeah.

One of the discussions we had actually, on your podcast was how I would char. Because our two boys, Right. How I would try to get them to. I would be like, oh, be careful. Right. Because I was the mom. Boys that. Be careful.

Don't do this, don't do that. And then, you know, her would come, like, well, no, they're supposed to be doing this or doing that. And the example we gave was climbing the trees.

Like, I was like, don't let them climb the trees. They're gonna fall out of the trees. And he's like, no, get up there. Go, go, go.

So, you know those kinds of situations that you really want to look at as a parent.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:25:09

Yeah. And that's a really good one because that's, like. It was the same for me.

Like, it was really, like, holding my breath and holding my tongue much more than I wanted to. Even things like giving. Giving the children, like, when you.

When you thought or they showed signs that they were able to be more independent, to be giving them more freedom. Like, I remember clearly the first time that I let my son go three doors up to his friend's house to play without me walking him up. And he.

I remember because he had really wanted to, like, and it was obvious that was a big thing for him. He. It was a big step for him. And. And I really struggled with giving that independence.

And the only way that I ended up doing it was, first of all, like, I made sure that, you know, mom was there and knew he was coming in five minutes. And then I went up to the.

Like, on the second floor of our house, and from the balcony there, I could see the sidewalk below us that connected, you know, the three houses. And so he left. I closed the door, you know, bye, have fun. And he's going out. Like, he's just so proud of himself.

But I had to be upstairs watching him so that I could, like, that was me. That had nothing to do with him. So that's one, like, exactly what you're saying. We're different. So, yeah, that awareness is what makes It.

Makes it work.

Herb: 00:26:53

So when my kids were young, they would start doing something, and my heart would, like, leap out of my chest because, you know, out of protection. And I would start to move and then it'd be like, wait a minute. It's like I kind of remember the stuff that I did at that age.

I remember that I played until I hurt myself and my dad would watch and he would pick me up and fix it, but he would let me go until. But, but he, he didn't let me like get life threatening.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:27:22

Right.

Herb: 00:27:22

And I, I kind of, I did that very well with my boys all the way up until I got to the Grand Canyon. The Grand Canyon was something different. My body went into height shock and I couldn't handle it. And they were running around and I had to.

I was like, okay, I know you're safe. This isn't about you. But every time I see you run up to the edge, it's like I feel like I'm dying inside. So I know you're safe, not about you.

Please don't run up to the edge because I'm hurting here. And so they saw that in me and then they calmed down. But it was like, not about you. I know you're safe, but. But this is killing me right now.

And I'm like freaked out because I'm like a mile in the air and I'm standing on the ground at the same time. So. So yeah, so I was able to communicate to. That to them. And instead of saying don't do that, it's like, hey, I'm in bad shape here.

But other than that is like I would almost like set them up because it's like, oh, let's go do this and play rough and tumble. And then they would hurt and we would, we would work through the process and then we would go play some more. So.

But yeah, so again, a little different but. But still the same. It's like you got to let them play. You got to let him rough and tumble.

And as a dad, sometimes you have to step back and let him get hurt just enough.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:28:41

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think they had. They. There's a need to take risks. Maybe more so than, than for a little girl.

That's, you know, just an innate thing there.

So the more, the more you can create that environment where that need to take a risk can be satisfied with, you know, out too much damage, then that's, that's kind of the goal, isn't is.

Kristina: 00:29:10

Yeah.

And it's one of those things as a parent, you know, boys or girls, you have to remember that they need to have experiences so they can learn where their boundaries and Things are right. So you do. You have to give them that space to explore.

And one of the things we talk about quite a bit is that parents, you know, when they're babies, we're like, oh, we're so involved because they are completely dependent on us. And then we forget that as they grow and change, we need to relax and step back and let them gain that independence.

And, you know, it looks different for girls and boys, but it's the same for all kids. We need to let them have those experiences as much as possible.

Herb: 00:29:48

But it's also very important to model and to instruct proper behavior, because sometimes those experiences, especially with boys, get out of hand. They do. I'm a boy. I got out of hand. It happened. No way.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:30:00

You did it.

Herb: 00:30:00

Yeah, you did. And so there's also a lot in learning how to handle that and keeping, again, the respect and the. The traditions and the communication open.

Because when we do get out of line, if. If it's handled badly, it can lead to more out of lineness. So, you know, there's all of that.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:30:20

No, I think. Yeah, I think. And I think it's for girls or boys, but I think that's one of our jobs as parents is to really instill what our core values are.

Like, what they do with them is going to end up being their choice.

But if they have a strong foundation, you know, and like you said, like traditional things that we keep, you know, within our family unit and they need a. A base to go from, they can make their own decisions as they get older, but they.

That's, you know, and whether that's through actual, you know, teachings or if it's solely from role modeling, that kind of behavior. And I think that's really, really important.

Kristina: 00:31:05

Yeah, exactly.

Herb: 00:31:06

And sometimes the consequences of the actions are more important than the punishments. And the punishments aren't necessarily necessary because, again, the consequences.

So you teach consequences instead of punishment was one thing that really worked well with our boys as well.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:31:23

I agree completely. Yeah. I don't.

Kristina: 00:31:26

Good consequences or bad consequences or something that happens. Yeah, yeah.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:31:31

I don't think there's any need for punishment. I think it's a. I don't think there's any need for it, but.

And what, like when you're talking about consequences and things like that, something else that I found really, really effective, not just with our son, but just, you know, in general, was as long as you've got a good relationship with the child, and if something is.

If there is some misbehavior that there needs to Be a consequence for what the situation was, having that child take responsibility to be part of that decision. So, you know, how are we going to. You have a problem, how are you going to fix it? And, you know, helping with that guidance and like that, that's.

It just is so much more powerful than saying, oh, you really screwed up. This is your penalty. Like that teaches them nothing, in my opinion, and has a reverse consequence.

Kristina: 00:32:35

Exactly.

Matter of fact, one of the people I used to follow a lot, Jim Fay and the love and logic teaching for parenting, you know, you always give choices because then the choices are ones that you can deal with, but at the same time, you're allowing them to make those choices and build that resilience of, oh, I made a good choice. Oh, that wasn't such a good choice. Or like you said, you, you know, there's a problem, and this is what some kids do, and this is what other kids do.

Now how are you going to fix it? There's some ideas for you.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:33:06

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Kristina: 00:33:08

Yeah.

Herb: 00:33:09

So what was your experience going through school? Because boys tend to be a little more learning through motion and movement and rough and tumble and learning through that.

And then in school, it's like they're still pretty much told to sit still. Still. So how. How are you able to navigate that.

Kristina: 00:33:28

Or help your son navigate?

Herb: 00:33:29

Yeah. How.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:33:30

Yeah, well, those are two very different questions.

So, because I had an insider's view, I can tell you that as far as our son went, I think he understood from a young age that he, his mom, believed that school, especially in that early, you know, the lower elementary years, the system in the school isn't necessarily built for little boys to be successful and really tried to encourage him to understand it wasn't about him, it was the system. So that was how I, you know, you do what you can to try to change the system. But the bottom line is you are solely responsible for your child.

So if you can't change the system, you have to help your child understand, you know, sorry, bud, but this is the way it is. Here's some. Here's some Leo tips or some strategies to help you get through.

I'll do my best to try to, you know, make it a little bit, not easier, but less challenging by, you know, maybe I'll talk to the teacher, maybe I'll share some of my books with him or whatever, but he knows that you understand what he's going through. So that, to me, was the most important thing for him, being on the inside. I think I had an advantage because.

Except for those first two years in Canada, all of my classroom experience, all my teaching experience has been in an international school system. So I think the regulations and I think a national school system in most countries is much stricter. So I think I really benefited from that.

So mostly what I understood when I was in the classroom with the young boys especially is that curriculum was something we could cover in a variety of ways. And there was always, I always had more flexibility than like friends who were teaching in a national school at home.

So if I knew what the curriculum was, how it needed to be covered, then I just needed to find ways that resonated with all the children.

So inevitably with the boys, it was the project work, the hands on work, the, you know, moving constantly, really being involved, really feeling empowered by whatever the challenge was in the project they were doing. It was just adapting it to, to a way of learning that they thrived on.

Herb: 00:36:24

That was very, very well said. Couldn't, couldn't possibly agree more.

Kristina: 00:36:28

Yeah, I wish, you know, especially here in the States right now, our teachers had more latitude like that again.

Herb: 00:36:34

And I Wish, you know, 40 years ago somebody had said some of that to me, so.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:36:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Kristina: 00:36:43

And one of those things that, yeah, just. Yeah, because you came from a whole nother different.

His school was so small that it was very, very different because not having the variety of teachers, a variety of kids, variety of. It was even more narrow and structured in a way that maybe wasn't good for him.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:37:04

Well, that was one of the reasons that we moved from this country to another country was just we had the benefit of a small school here and it was beautiful for the elementary years in many ways. But, you know, there were years when there were 10 children in the classroom and nine of them were girls. That's hard for a little boy.

Herb: 00:37:28

Yeah, yeah. I grew up with four sisters, so. Yeah, my, my, my high school had 55 people. My graduating class was 11. My average class size was usually six.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:37:40

Yeah.

Herb: 00:37:41

So three or four girls, you know, being outnumbered wasn't a big deal because it wasn't that highly outnumbered. So little, little different. But again, growing up in that kind of a rural presented a whole different set of challenges as well.

Kristina: 00:37:58

Where our boys were going through school. You know, there was at least two teachers at every grade level, so we were able to kind of go in and kind of meet the teachers.

And of course, me being on the inside, being an educator at the, at the neighboring school, I was able to every once in a while say, you know, I would really appreciate if maybe My son went to this teacher instead of that teacher kind of thing. So, you know, being.

Doing the mom thing, but doing the education thing, watching out for and trying to make those matches of attitude and, you know, curriculum and not curriculum, but, you know, just the way the teacher would handle my child, especially our oldest, because he was on the autism spectrum, or he is on the autism. He still is, but, yeah, on the spectrum.

And so, you know, there were certain things that worked well for him, and when I was able to find those teachers that were able to do that for him, his school year was much more successful.

Herb: 00:38:46

So what are some of the other, like, big things that you tend to, like, see that. Of the differences that really, when you explain them to parents that. That make a difference.

So what are some tips that you can give to parents about boys that's just gonna calm them down or help them realize or understand that. That mom that's not gonna get it, because the dads are kind of going to get it. But for those moms, there we go. The moms who aren't gonna get it.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:39:20

Well, there's. There's two things. Like, the one easy thing for. For moms to do is understand a little bit about communication and effective communication.

So lots of moms will tell me that they have conflicts because their son just will not listen to them. Like, no matter what, they will not listen. And when we talk a little bit about, okay, so what are some of the differences and.

And why might that be happening? And in general, the. The volume level, I don't know what the right word is, technical word, but the volume of our.

Our speaking voices and the tone are different between males and females. And so when I am talking to you, Christina, we're probably. It's kind of very easy to hear me, to kind of. You know, we do the eye to eye thing.

I don't want any background noise around me. We have a. We can have a really good conversation. And this works really well.

If you were talking to my brother or my husband, Herb, and you guys are talking about.

I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm hearing you, and you're talking about that baseball game last night, and there was something that was just whatever. I hear really loud voices, really intense voices, and it's almost like shouting, even though you're not shouting.

And actually, I've experienced this in a few different countries where I've been walking by a group of men and I oh, God, what's going on? And when I look and see their faces, they're just having a good conversation. But when I hear that say, oh, there must be a problem, they're shouting.

So that's it. And it's a very natural thing. And the other thing with, especially in school with the little boys, the background noise, it doesn't bug them so much.

You get a little boy sitting at his desk and he's got the, with his, with his pen and you know, he's really, he's, he's cool, like no big deal. And the teacher's at the front of the room, will you stop doing that with your pencil? The sound is just killing her.

But the little boy, it's, it doesn't bother him as much. And it's not that one is good and one is bad, but they're just different.

So, so when you think about the tone and the background sounds like that thing, and the same, like females prefer front to front, face to face, eyes to eyes. The little boys are just, it's, they're more comfortable side to side.

You will find if you're, you know, walking with your son, you might have a really good conversation. If he's in the car beside you, you might have a really good conversation. If you try to do that.

It's kind of like, you know, there are certain wild animals that you're not supposed to make eye contact with if you don't want them to engage. I'm not saying that in a negative way. It's just recognition. I work better this way, they work better this way.

So that's one part of the communication. Another part is connected with focus. And again, everything I say is on a spectrum. There are some people way over here, some way over here.

In general, women are really brilliant at multitasking. And they can have five different plates on the go and do a fairly good job at all of them. Men in general are extremely skilled at single focus.

And when they're into something, they can kind of shut out the rest of the world and be totally focused on that.

So, so in that kind of a light, in that situation, if you have a little boy who's come home from school while his mom is making supper, he goes up to his room and is playing with whatever it is that he was so excited to get home and get back to play with. He's up there, he's totally engrossed in whatever he's playing with. His mom is making dinner.

Five minutes before dinner is going to be on the table, she calls up to give him a heads up. Because we know that's one of the Things. That's a good thing to do. She goes back.

Yeah, she goes back, she finishes what she's doing, she's got the food on the table. She calls up and says it's time to come down now. And she goes back. There's always something to do.

So she's continuing to kind of move around in the, in the kitchen doing her stuff. Five minutes goes by and he's still not coming down the stairs. And she's almost done, she's almost ready to sit down.

So she goes to the bottom of the stairs, knells up a little bit louder, come down for dinner, and she goes back, does her last minute things. A few minutes pass. Well, he is still not down there. She is annoyed because she thinks, I've been working all day too.

I've given him three chances to come down. Like, come on, he's being disrespectful. She stomps up the stairs, stands in the doorway and kind of says, look, I've called you three times.

If you can't listen and come down when you're supposed to, maybe next time you come home from school. There is no Lego or whatever he was doing. And that little guy looks at his mom just bewildered like, what is going on?

He didn't hear her, for one thing. He's totally focused in what he's doing.

And all of a sudden his mom, the most important person in the world, is standing at the door totally annoyed with him, and he has no idea why.

So if she understands that, then right from the get go, she goes upstairs, puts a hand on his shoulder and say, honey, dinner's ready in five minutes. Then she goes down. She's maybe going to make two trips. The next time she goes up, hand on the shoulder, make sure he's, you know, got eye contact.

He's listening. Dinner time. Great, mom, let's go, I'm starving. Totally different. And it's not his fault, it's not her fault. There's not an understanding.

Kristina: 00:47:40

And I'm sitting here smiling and shaking my head.

Herb: 00:47:42

Same thing with husbands.

Kristina: 00:47:43

I've done it.

Herb: 00:47:44

Same thing with husbands.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:47:48

Yeah, I know that one too.

Herb: 00:47:51

Did you touch me? Did you make eye contact with me? Did you get my attention in any sort of meaningful way before you told me something important?

Because it's like, if you don't have me, you don't have me.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:48:04

Yeah. Yes, I agree. But like I said, it's not that one is better than the other or when.

Herb: 00:48:11

It's just we don't understand each other, disrespectful it's just. It's just not there. Yeah, it's not. It's not in my reality. It's not. Yeah, it's not there.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:48:23

That's not the way you communicate at your best level. So if we are both going to try to communicate the best we can, we have to understand how the other talks and communicates and hears, and I.

Kristina: 00:48:39

Want to even take that a step further.

And as parents, you know, let's model this and actually talk about it out loud, because, yeah, some kids just pick it up and they really kind of realize what's going on.

But if you specifically model and specifically say, you know, why did I come to your room instead of just yelling up the stairs, well, I did that because I know that you listen better or you understand better when I'm closer to you or I have your direct focus. So when you model and talk about it out loud, that also helps.

The kids really pick up on those clues, and then they learn how to communicate with everybody a little bit better.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:49:15

That's quite possible.

Kristina: 00:49:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my gosh, Katherine, this has been a very interesting conversation.

I love where we've gone with this and, you know, ending with this whole communication piece that, you know, let's really make sure that as we are looking at our boys, looking at our children, looking at all the different ways of communicating that we really do, you know, make those significant efforts to make it. Make it sense and make it happen all the time. So thank you for the conversation. Thank you for your pleasure, wisdom, and your ideas for today.

Herb: 00:49:46

Yep. Thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Thank you for going on your journey and deciding to share it.

So many people see stuff that's wrong with the world and then just they talk about it and they complain about it, and instead of talking and complaining about it, you're actually doing something about it and you're helping other people to. To make the world a better place. So thank you for the work that you're doing, and thank you for making the world a better place.

Thank you for going on a hero's journey and coming back and sharing with the world. So thank you for being.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:50:13

Thank you. Thank you. It's a beautiful thing to say. I appreciate it, and I appreciate being here today.

So thank you for letting me have a platform to kind of beat my horn with.

Kristina: 00:50:25

You are very, very welcome. All right, audience, you know what this means. It's about time, actually. Before we go. Oh, my gosh, I almost forgot.

Kathryne, would you please make sure you share with the audience, how they can get a hold of you or what you want to share with them so that they can continue this conversation if this has struck a cord with them.

Kathryne Imabayashi: 00:50:42

The best place to go is my website. It's Sonhood S O N H o o d.com and everything is on there.

There's some free resources, there's articles that I've written, all the podcasts that I've been on. The book is there, that I've written, everything. All the social network or the social media links will be there.

So that's the best, easiest place to go.

Kristina: 00:51:11

Excellent. Thank you very much. And of course, that will be in the show notes.

So all you have to do is follow down, click on that and you'll get all that information right there for you. All right, audience, it has been wonderful time sharing with you again.

Please make sure that you share this episode like the podcast, do all the things that help spread the news. Because guess what?

There are experts like Kathryne, like us, who are here ready to help families be happy, healthy and successful as they're raising their children and focusing on the education for a better world all the way around. Until next time, bye for now.

Herb: 00:51:42

Bye for now.