EP99-Trusting Your Child's Journey: David Lederman on Parenting and Homeschooling

Herb: 00:00:02

Today I have the pleasure of introducing David Lederman. David is A leadership coach, TEDx speaker and author who helps high achievers navigate major life transitions with clarity, ease and fulfillment.

He loves inspiring people young and old to trust in themselves and embrace the adventures of life. Together with his young daughter, they recently co published their first book in a heartwarming children's book series. Welcome David.

It is a pleasure to have you here today.

David Lederman: 00:00:30

Thanks for having me. Excited to be here.

Kristina: 00:00:32

It is so amazing. When we entered, we found each other about a year ago, you had talked about. Yeah, I know, it's been that long.

You had talked about this project with your daughter and you talked about homeschooling and how, you know, the life that you live is just really amazing for you and your daughter and the creativity that that brings. And we want to bring these kinds of stories to our families as well because we are a family resource on bringing education home.

But we're also sharing those homeschool journeys, those challenges and those joys and beautiful projects like this. So maybe start with a little bit about. Yeah. Why you chose homeschooling, why it's a good fit for you and your family.

David Lederman: 00:01:16

Well, I'm trying to remember how it actually began. I have strong feelings about learning and the process of learning and creativity and so forth.

And you know, the truth is, my daughter, it took a lot to bring her into the world. And you know, when she was born, there was.

The delivery went in a really unpleasant way and the doctors were blown away that she didn't need to go to the neonatal intensive care unit because of how trying it was. And they said, literally when they opened up, you know, my wife and got her arm was like this, like a superhero, right.

And my daughter, just from the moment she's born, she was born, she just has this, this like, spirit and this, this. I don't say drive, it's not the right word, but the zest for life that I think most kids have. But she, it was, it was just so apparent.

And I grew up in a family where it was like, you go to the best schools and you be the top student. And so, and there was just a tremendous amount of pressure to basically be successful.

So I, I think so my parents could feel like, okay, you're going to be okay. Right. And I'm not against, you know, do whatever works best for you.

But for me, schooling was something where it really took this spirit of like loving to learn and just for me was not a good fit. I learned to play the game well. I'm spending most of my adult life trying to reconnect to a lot of that.

And for my daughter, my wife and I both were very much on the same page where we're like, we want whatever is going to nurture that spirit that she has. It's so strong and we're so blessed to have. Right. And we just found she's independent.

And one of the things that we happened to do was initially my wife, when we moved at the time and my daughter 3 years old, to a place where there were these other moms that got together with kids around the same age. And it created this kind of like nature based meetup, if you will, for lack of that word. That's really all it was.

Kristina: 00:03:14

Yeah.

David Lederman: 00:03:14

But we found that our daughter really thrived outside, as most kids do, where learning was happening, like in the moment versus, okay, we're going to sit, we're going to read and learn about something. And she just soaked that up.

And my wife and I ended up creating a, a business that we called Nature Play School that allowed young kids to learn in that kind of environment at first.

And from there, once we moved on from that, my daughter, it was very much just, she loves like the self directed kind of environment where she can really choose what it is that she wants to do.

And we've also traveled a lot and we take every opportunity to be like, we can be at the airport, moving to our gate and there's an opportunity to learn how to navigate, get to your gate, deal with people. There's, you know, emotional intelligence opportunities and stuff.

And especially why do you see like her dad, for example, like me when I, you know, get triggered by, you know, the joy of flying and dealing with all the, all the things that come up there and then being able to talk through, okay, how did, how did we do that and what could we do a little better and so forth.

So all these things led us to just down a path where she really seemed to thrive in environments where she could lean really deeply into what it was that she liked.

She tried doing an actual school for a period of time, really loved aspects of it, but for the most part after about six months was like, I want to go back to homeschooling.

And when we say homeschooling, there's a lot of different versions of it, but it's very much just a self directed kind of process that's very, very flexible and creative and she's continued with that. Now she does different things for the social and other aspects, but that's kind of how we got into it.

Herb: 00:05:03

Yeah, that's. That's what we call our business education at home and not homeschooling. Because the system, the school system we. We consider kind of broken.

My wife was a teacher for 27 years, so we kind of got to watch it start broken and then get worse over the 27 years. And so what you're talking about is educating your child, not. Not schooling your child. And so that is.

There were so many points that we talk about that you just kind of brought up just as, oh, hey, I saw this, I saw this, I saw this. One is that the children learn through playing, that they get that experience.

The second is they can learn while they're traveling and watch their parents deal with issues and learn from that. So just.

There's just so many points on, that you touched on that are just so amazing and beautiful that you just, that you just kind of glossed over them. Like, like, oh, yeah, I was this and this and this and this is like, no, no, that, that, that.

That's what we try and really get parents to see and understand. And you just flew. Flowed into that so beautifully. So, you know, thank you for sharing that and, and how good that is just right off the bat.

I mean, just amazing. Amazing recognition and connection with your parents or with your child. And again, you talked about the love of learning.

So I, My school pictures tell my story because, like, when I went to school, I had this bright smile, and by, like, second or third grade, my school pictures were.

David Lederman: 00:06:37

Yeah.

Herb: 00:06:38

And so it was like, you could just see how the school, you know, beat that out of me just within the first couple of years. So, yeah, just. Just that. That you recognize that right off the bat. Well done. Just, just well done. And that, that, you know, you.

Your parents are like, oh, they got to go to good schools, they got to get good grades, which is what our generation was taught, which is what we're all taught to learn, or, you know, you got to do this, you got to do this, and, you know, you got to go to college.

Kristina: 00:07:11

So actually, that brings in. My next question is, so what did your parents think of whenever. That you said, no, we're not going to put her in formal schooling. How did that go?

David Lederman: 00:07:21

Oh, I'll never forget my daughter was a year and a half and my mom was visiting and she brought up something about college. And I told her, I said, I'm actually going to. I will support my daughter in whatever she wants to do.

I'm going to encourage her not to go to a traditional college in the States that's like, insanely expensive.

I would rather her use that money, travel the world, open a business up, do something where she's going to get life experience that will, Will help her discover. What if she wants to do something more that needs schooling? Yeah, then do that. I.

I went to UCLA out of state, and I played into the game of like, you know, getting into a top 25 school, and I actually went to UCLA because I wanted to be. I was passionate about filmmaking.

I got into the film school, and ironically, my least favorite classes and the classes I got the worst grades in were film because I was trying to bring my creativity and my spirit to it. And I was very. I was getting experience outside of the, the, the actual program in such a way that.

Pardon me, I was like, why are you having me almost. It's like, you know, I. I worked on a project my first two months in the, in the program, use shooting six, you know, 16 millimeter.

Excuse me, 35 millimeter film, working with Steadicam operate like these sophisticated pieces of equipment, and they're like, okay, for your big project, you need to use something that's almost like five steps back. And I was like, that doesn't make sense. That's just because most people don't have that opportunity.

So I'm like, I get that, but can we meet where I'm at kind of thing, right?

And that was something where I just realized, like, wow, I'm spending all this money out of state tuition to basically struggle with people to go, here's. I want to just support what it is that I want to do so I can be effective and contribute to this world.

I then discovered the world of the web space because I love the creative and the technical. While I was a Peace Corps volunteer. Well, I did that after.

After being an undergrad where I taught myself to code and I taught myself to do design, which came naturally from the film background or web design. And so here it was that I had this career blossom out of something that was of my own interest.

And it led me on this wild path that in a way, I would say most people say, well, you learn a lot about yourself and growing up in university. And for me, I actually found it got in the way of a lot of things.

Just as you were saying, that's not to say it's right for everybod or wrong for everybody, like, find your thing.

But for a lot of people, I feel like, man, it is a very expensive way to try to, you know, learn some things that you can get very Effectively without all the things that are negatives, Right?

And so I told my mom, I was like, I'm going to encourage her to, if she wants to get the piece of paper, you know, go to a community college or whatever, do something that's super cost effective. But I told her, I'll never forget reading an article around that time that basically said, my daughter, who's now 10, the jobs that she's.

I don't even like the word compete, but I'm going to use it because that's what the article said. The jobs that she's going to compete for. The technology doesn't even exist yet. So if you think about AI and what.

How the technology is changing so fast and it's accelerating so fast, it's like you have this environment that's not the most conducive for their emotional mental wellbeing. You have an environment where their actual creativity is being squeezed. You have an environment where it's costing you a fortune, Right?

You have all these things and you're like.

And on top of that, what they're teaching is stuff that's going to get in the way of the entrepreneurial, adaptive, you know, innovative kind of thing that you can't get when you're told, this is what you're learning, this is the test, and so forth.

And so with my daughter, I was just like, for as long as I can support that, not force her, because at the end of day, if she said, daddy, I want to go to UCLA or college, okay, great, you know, we'll support what you want, but at least let it be an informed decision kind of thing. So my mom was, like, shocked when she heard that. Like, are you, like, that's like harming your child? And it was just.

It's just a different perspective, you know, it's just a different language kind of thing. Now she sees what Ava's doing. Yeah, my daughter. And she's blown away. And she's like, wow. She's, you know, she's.

She's totally fine engaging in conversation. She. She knows herself really well.

Like all the things that you typically hear about when people are educated in a way that's more aligning with who they are, whether it's at home or wherever. You know what I mean?

Kristina: 00:12:02

Yes.

Herb: 00:12:03

Right. You actually hope college kids come out as well educated as your daughter is right now because they can't write sentences. They can't talk to people.

They're stuck in this box they know, have no creativity. They are competing for jobs where you're.

Where it Sounds like your daughter is never going to actually have to compete for a job because she's going to be doing what she loves from the go and is going to blossom into whatever it is she's going to do. And that's one of the joys of the way you're educating your daughter right now.

And I love that you talked about entrepreneurship because, you know, so many entrepreneurs think, oh, I have to do this and this and this, and they push so hard and. But they end up losing their families along the way. But.

But by having that just naturally ingrained and following your passions and your love, that that's just going to grow and it's not going to have to be pushed.

But one thing that I would encourage you to do, we had one lady on our podcast who talked about how to start getting your children's scholarships ready while they're still in grade school, whether they go to college or not.

You can have hundreds of thousands of dollars set up so you don't wait until they're like sophomores or juniors or seniors in high school to start looking. There are things that you can start doing now to pay for your daughter's education. And like, when I remember is like the little.

The Google thing at the top changes the way they look every day. There's a thousand page for the landing page.

The word Google looks different every day, but they give children $1,000 scholarship if they're selected for that. And so those are drawn by children most of the time. And so that's just one simple thing.

She can start submitting these little drawing things to Google with. And, and if she gets selected, there's a thousand dollars for her college already.

Kristina: 00:13:52

So whatever education she wants.

David Lederman: 00:13:54

Yeah.

Herb: 00:13:55

So, yeah. And if she's, and if she doesn't end up going, well, you're, you're prepared. And it's like, you don't have to necessarily support her.

She can be prepared to support herself as well. So again, so articulate in the way that you describe that. Just a beautiful journey. That's what we're trying to get our parents to understand.

And the squashing, the creat. Creativity, the way you put that in there, you, we, we see that happen. It's like our kids went to school and they were su.

And then they just kind of got squashed and stopped being able to talk to us.

The, the way that homeschool children are able to talk with people of different ages and comfortable, can walk into a room full of adults and feel like.

Kristina: 00:14:35

They belong there, and that addresses that socialization concern. Have you had people say, oh, are you afraid she's going to be not fitting in or that she's going to be socially awkward or anything like that?

Because that's one of the things we do hear from families.

David Lederman: 00:14:48

Oh, I hear that all the time. And it's funny to me because I asked them, I go, what are your kids dealing with socially at school? Uhhuh. And when I. That's my response to them.

And they're like, oh, well, they're, you know, the kids are making fun of them and they're dealing with like, the bullying and the. And the, you know, the. The pressure with, you know, technology and phones and things of that sort.

Herb: 00:15:06

Yeah.

David Lederman: 00:15:07

And I was like, so you're basically asking me, like, is my daughter getting that? I'm like, she's not. She doesn't have to deal with that now in terms of her actually having connection with people because of the way we do it.

She's got tons of time. She's got way more time than she would have had otherwise. And so we're able to do things like. She just started a dance program that's more like.

I don't know what they call it. I'm totally ignorant when it comes to it, but it's like the hip hop, street kind of dance stuff that she really loves.

And it was amazing because she was like, she got, after the first session, totally as a class of like 40 kids. And like, when I was in school, by that point, I was like, awkward and like, oh, I'm nervous about to talk to people and so forth.

And she just was like, going in, making friends with people, and she was like, it's only one day a week. I mean, excuse me, two days a week. And we're like, we thought we'd have to convince her to be like, come on, you got to do this. This is important.

So she's, you know, there's after school programs that she's a part of. She does some things on the weekends that she really enjoys. And it's like the thing that also happens is she appreciates it more too.

You know what I mean? So when she's around kids, she's leaning in fully versus, you know, it's not.

She doesn't feel pressure as, I mean, we have our moments with, you know, technology and the phone and things of that sort. But she actually said, she observed.

She's like, daddy, like, everybody, as soon as they're done with the dance, they get on their phones and that's all they're doing right and so again, this isn't criticism for anybody else. If that works for you, great. But for us, it's like, be a child, have the time to do so. And there are so many ways I don't.

It's, it's almost impossible not to allow your kid to, to be social unless you lock them inside the house.

So to me, it's a really funny perspective thing because again, it comes down to assumptions that we're making about what the school environment is and what I often hear of my siblings, you know, about my nieces and my nephew and friends who have kids. It's like the social that they're getting is what they're actually most worried about and spending the most time in therapy on and other things.

And it's just like, so I don't even get the question in some ways, but I get it because they're thinking about it in the traditional way.

Kristina: 00:17:31

And that's why I asked it because, you know, so many people ask that question. It's like, no, just listen to this father who has a child who's doing it and how, you know, and people look at us as like, well, that can't be true.

It's like, no, there are colleges who are actually looking for homeschooled children more now because they are socially able and capable and energetic in communication and self sufficient and all these different things.

Herb: 00:17:55

And when people ask, when people say that stuff to me it's like, okay, so when is the most, what are your most traumatic memories? The, the thing, the worst things that ever happened to you? When did they happen to you?

And most of people will talk about their school days and their high school days and it's like, so you want that socialization now?

Here's, here's, and then the follow up question to that is when is when adults are around your child are, do they compliment her on how present she is? On the way she can communicate? On how. Because you know, most kids just disappear.

But now your child is out there and they go, oh wow, you're so she's getting compliments and engagement from adults, which adds to that. And then, and then they question you as like, well, what about the socialization of schools?

Like, wait, didn't you just like compliment my child on how they're able to be in the world? And now you're saying, but what about shutting them down in school? So yeah, I can see your confusion about that.

So does, are there, are there people, when they meet her is like, wow, she's really put together.

David Lederman: 00:19:01

Yeah, well, and part of that was also why we part of the motivation to initially explore the homeschool path because she was late to start talking, but when she started talking it was like she just leapt forward. And we were never the type to be like, okay, she on track and where is she in the percentiles and all that. We didn't care about that.

But man, she just, she, like I said, she came out knowing what she wanted and she needed to be able to articulate herself well. So when she was like 18 months, I remember the pediatrician was just like, like your kid is like talking like a two and a half year old, right?

And they're like, what are you doing? I'm like, if anything I'm getting in the way of that, right? So there was like this desire to want to support and nurture that.

And I knew that given her just way of being in that strong spirit that she had that very quickly if she's in a school setting where again, you know, I, I, I was a Peace Corps volunteer, I taught English for part of that time.

And so I can only imagine what it's like to be a teacher where you have a classroom full of people, mixed abilities, mixed interest levels, mixed mental emotional dynamics that you're dealing with. And then you have something where it's like, like my daughter, who knows what she wants, she loves to be spoken to like a normal human being.

I won't say grown up or child, right. But not talked down to. If she has a question, she'd love the clarification just like a grownup would, right.

And I can just see it where it's like, if she's in an environment where it's like just put your head down and do what I tell you, the resistance is going to build up and then she's going to very quickly be labeled a bad kid. She's going to act out, she's going to do all kinds of stuff, right?

And that's just that energy that wants to come out that's being forced to have to go down this path that's, that's just not aligning. So it's just something where she was able to articulate very well.

But I think the comfort around people and in situations is something that most people are just blown away with.

There's a, a kind of a somatic training that my wife and I have done and there's a group, it's, I'll never forget, we went to this thing and it's connected to. My wife and I are very interested in ancient and indigenous Cultures, right? And so this lady who was running it was this kind of elder.

Herb: 00:21:26

Had.

David Lederman: 00:21:27

This elder quality to her, right? Not just somebody who's old, but somebody who's truly grounded, did their work in their life and has this presence, right?

I came to go to this training. My wife came to support my daughter. I mean, to just take my daughter and go do fun stuff.

Because it was in a beautiful part of the country that we're in, right? My daughter crossed paths with this woman and immediately just started talking to her and was so intrigued by her, right?

And then we did some kind of cool practice in the evening. And my daughter was without. Without even hesitating, without asking us. She just asked this lady, her name is Chris.

She's like, chris, can I come to the morning session? And Chris just looks at us and she's like, sure. Because she's very supportive of kids, you know, and she didn't care.

She liked that idea of like the childlike energy being part of this group. And it was so funny because here we are and it's like 35 people or so. Grown ups, doctors, lawyers, engineers, all different types of people.

And then there's my daughter at the time, initially, she was. That was three years ago. So seven years old, she's sitting there and participating in this group with people, and everybody was just like, holy cow.

And to hers was normal, right? And it was, it was. It was something that she even think about because she's just like. She doesn't see that disconnect that most kids learn in school.

Kristina: 00:22:46

Yeah, absolutely. Love that.

And that's one of the things we talk to when we're talking about those entrepreneur parents, is that, you know, if you are bringing the education home, if your child isn't tied to a school schedule, they get to go experience some of those things with you that you get to go to.

Maybe it's an entrepreneur meeting, maybe it's a business meeting that, you know, knowing that the child is well behaved, etc, is allowed to be part of, right? Because they're able to show up and be confident.

Then, you know, what wonderful life experiences are they getting already at 7 years old or 10 years old or 12 years old?

David Lederman: 00:23:19

Well, that's what's funny, because with the book that we just published, she was the one. So when she was three and a half, we came up with this story together. Not to make a book, just a bedtime story. And I very much.

I love mythic storytelling. I love the way indigenous cultures use storytelling to help kids grow. And one of the things that I.

I wanted to do was I got tired of seeing books out there for young kids who are kind of old souls or really mature that are, I feel, super simplified for them, super one dimensional. It's like we're going to teach about emotional intelligence or empathy. So it's like Jane hits Joe, Joe gets upset, Joe talks to Jane.

And it's like, I think kids can handle a little bit more than that. And so I wanted something where it's like, can we create a story where there's. It's not so literal?

There's symbolism, there's things that's happening, and there's dynamics that you can look at, at a suit, at a superficial level, that when you're older, you can look at and. And engage it and understand it in a different way.

And so as my daughter was going through experience at that point, she was starting to really deal with, like, tantrums and this energy that was really strong and just would come out of her. So we called it Big Feelings, right?

And we wanted to really implant this notion that it's like the feelings themselves are okay and it's natural to have that. It's just, you don't lash it out on everybody, right?

Where I grew up, where it's like you were told you can't even, you know, you go to your room if you make a face kind of thing, right?

And so it's like, is there a way to incorporate what she's struggling with through these characters that she created together, working and through the story that was just kind of fun. And then from that point on, we could say, oh, because it's called Chava and Poofy. Those are the two main characters.

Baba is this brave girl and Poofy is this easily scared zebra. But the thing that's interesting is Chava is super brave, but when it comes to feelings, she's terrified of them.

Poofy, however, is scared of everything. But when it comes to feelings. And she's like, why? What's the big. Okay, it's a big feeling kind of thing.

Herb: 00:25:23

Yeah.

David Lederman: 00:25:24

And so they both balance and together make this kind of whole that's really, really healthy. And they go on these adventures and deal with all these things.

But the beautiful thing is that my daughter wanted to hear that story every single night for an entire year. And then we came up with a second one, and then she wanted to hear that one.

And then the thing that was cool was as she got older, she'd still ask to hear it. And at a time she'd say, daddy, wait Is that about this?

We had one where my daughter just showed up and she has this thing with death that I'm sure she's here to kind of work through and stuff, but she had a sort of grandmother like figure who died of cancer is very abrupt, and it was really. You could tell she was really struggling with it, but it was one of the things she didn't want to necessarily talk about it.

I was like, I want to honor that. So we used the story here and that one because of how sensitive it was. I wrote more of that one and shared it with her.

And when she got about halfway through and said, daddy, I can't, I stopped. And so I was like, okay. And then a couple weeks later, she's like, dad, I want to hear the rest. And she heard and she started crying.

And all this emotion came out, and it wasn't literal. It's not like directly about death, but it's implied in a very subtle way. And I'll never forget.

Less than a year later, we're reading it again, and she goes, daddy, is this about Annie? Who's the woman who died?

Kristina: 00:26:39

Yeah.

David Lederman: 00:26:40

And I got. I get chills now because it was one of those things where I'm like. It was just. It was a special moment because it's like, let.

Let kids be kids and let them learn in the way that they need to. Because I could have sat there and said, ava, okay, let's talk about death. Let's process these feelings and so forth.

And there's a time and a place for that, right? But this was her kind of arriving at that in the way that she needed to, that really aligns with who and how she is.

And it was really, really beautiful. But I come back full circle because it's my daughter who's like, daddy, I want to turn these into a cartoon.

And I was like, well, that's awesome, but why don't we see if people are interested first in it as a book? Because that's what it's a story, right? She's like, okay. And I said, okay, but you're, you know, you've got homeschooling, all that.

Let's just make this another big part of that. But I said, you're going to be involved in every part. It's not just me doing this. Right? You're going to be involved in planning.

We're going to have to do GoFundMe. Excuse me, Kickstarter fundraising effort. We're going to have to work with an illustrator. You're going to be in all the meetings.

We're going to build a website together and so forth. And here was my daughter all along, loving it, every single part. Even the illustrator was like. So she's like, oh, Ava's going to be on the call.

So I was like, yeah. She's like, that's awesome. Because she brought. And she would sit there and start asking questions and say, no, I don't like it like that.

And we're like, she has equal say with me. It's not just me.

Kristina: 00:28:02

I just want to point out here, in case the audience missed it, she's 10 now, so she's been doing this, you've been working on this for a little while. So she started before she was 10, being involved with these meetings, with these ideas.

Herb: 00:28:14

Oh yeah.

Kristina: 00:28:15

With all of these people. Yeah, yeah.

Herb: 00:28:18

This is, this is when the children love what they're doing. They, they love to learn. So that she's following her passion. She's doing something she wants to.

She's probably not even necessarily aware that this is a learning opportunity. Even though you said it's part of a school. She's just like, oh, I get to do this.

So she is pulling in all of this amazing learning on her own, thinking that she's just having fun writing a book, making, wanting to get it to the point where she can make it a movie cartoon. Right. So for her, it's not even necessarily a learning opportunity. For her, this is a living opportunity.

But when you incorporate your learning into your life, then. And again, that's kind of one of the things that, why we call it education at home and not homeschooling.

Because once you bring the education home, then the education never stops. It's a lifelong process.

And so right now, at 10 years old, she's already in that lifelong process and it's going to continue throughout her whole life. And that is, to me, that's just awesome. Mind boggling that, that you, that you just grew into that, into flow so easily. So well done.

Congratulations and keep going. I'm just totally enraptured with this story. It's, it's just amazing.

David Lederman: 00:29:39

It's just, I appreciate it, but it's like it's her. We, I, I learned from very, very powerful but very, very smart and wise. This the right word.

Wise elders who really taught me that like in these cultures, that's why I'm fascinated by them. They taught that we show up with something, there's wisdom in our children. It's not. They're a blank slate. We have to fill it.

It's There like a flower that wants to emerge.

And if we can just nurture and support it, because we need to, there's, you know, it's not just, hey, that the child roams free and does whatever they want. Magic can happen. And what was so cool was.

I mean, there were parts where my daughter was just like, do I have to sit in this meeting because I want to go plan? It's like, we made a commitment. You got to do this. There was also. The Kickstarter is really interesting.

So I did a lot of research on that, and it was. It was interesting because I didn't share this with her because I want her to see what her. How she would respond.

But I had read that normally the most successful ones are a month long. And the first week you have a lot of activity and support. Then it drops down to almost nothing for the middle two weeks and picks back up. Okay.

And so my daughter, I'll never forget at the very end because, you know, we needed A. About 40% in the final week. Right. And we had really leaned on all the people we know. We didn't have a huge network.

And it was just one of those things where I'll never forget, after we actually did it the next morning, we were all celebrating and all that, and she goes, daddy, can I tell you something? And I was like, yeah. She goes.

She goes, I was really confident at the beginning, but there was a point there where I really thought we weren't going to do it, but we did it. You know what I mean? And it was like, for her to go through that process and for us to do it together, it was such a gift for me.

But it was something that I remember growing up, and my parents, they wanted what was best for me, but their way of doing it really meant conflicted with how I am realizing now in my 40s, how, you know, I'm designed to be, if that makes sense. Right.

And so I remember growing up having a vivid imagination, all kinds of ideas and dreams, and it was very much like, it's okay to dream as long as you can make a good living out of it.

Kristina: 00:32:03

Right, Right.

David Lederman: 00:32:04

Which is, in essence, the antithesis to dreaming, because dreaming is about going out there and doing something that oftentimes involves risk and stepping out of your comfort zone and so forth. And so I remember for my daughter, I was like, I'll be the one thing as a father. I was like, I'll be damned if. If.

If she's going to feel that sense of, like, you have to limit your dreams. There's a lot of things that she's got to learn, got to work hard and so forth.

But I was like, man, for her to develop this core memory where she now knows she can dream big. And in fact, we called it the Dream Supernova big project because that's what it was to us. It was like, we have no experience whatsoever with this.

We know nothing. And thank God we knew nothing, because we found out later that most of kids books on Kickstarter do not succeed in raising the money.

And if we knew how much work was going to be involved and if we knew how, we literally had to go through a process with. And we had started working with an illustrator, and at a certain point we realized she's not the right illustrator for this.

And we were kind of also evolving our own vision for how we wanted this to be. And then we were dealing with this torn feeling of like, well, but we committed to her, and she's already put in a lot of work.

And I was like, you know, initially she was like, well, she's not the right one. And. And I was like, yeah, but we made a commitment, so let's honor that commitment. But let's.

Let's really hold the vision that somehow, some way, it's going to work out in the way we need it. And a couple weeks later, she calls the illustrator. She's just like, I'm so sorry, something's come up and I just. I can't continue on this project.

And I'm sitting there, we're both like, yes, this is great. This is awesome. Meanwhile, she's like, I'm so, so sorry. We're like, I know, I know. You know, I get that, you know, but we're mean love.

We're like, we're celebrating. And then after that, we're like, good, we're in the clear.

And then we got all this money from the Kickstarter, and then we couldn't find a single illustrator who was available or interested in the project at our price point.

Kristina: 00:33:58

Oh, wow.

David Lederman: 00:33:59

And we're like, oh, my God, now what are we doing? And she's like, like, on this roller coaster with me, right? And we're like, just hold the vision. Hold the vision. Hold the vision. We can do this.

We can do this. Something's going to happen. We're going to keep putting ourselves out there. And the thing that's fascinating, I tell her, I go, I didn't.

I have different kind of courage when I'm working with her, because I see so much from her that she's helping Me learn and step into. And vice versa. And so we both were kind of there for each other. And out of the blue, it was just this fluke thing with this weird.

I met this one person who introduced me to somebody not related to this book project. But it turned out she very much works with people in the publishing industry to help people who want to get their story out.

She put us in touch with this illustrator who initially wanted twice what we could afford to pay. And we're like, there's just no way we can do it for that. But we're like, please, please, please just take a look at the story. The story strong.

The story behind the story is strong. Wrong. She reads the story. She's like, I. I've been wanting to get into this kind of genre. She's this magnificent illustrator.

Kristina: 00:35:03

Yeah.

David Lederman: 00:35:04

Who deserved four times what we could pay her. And she was like, I love it. I'm gonna do it for you guys.

And then we thought, okay, she's just gonna kind of give us, like, the bare limits of her time because she's doing us a favor. But because she wanted to actually get into this space and move her work in that, she was like, literally went above and beyond.

And we're sitting there going like, you can't make this up. It was just like all these pieces coming together and my daughter being actively involved and seeing how that can happen.

And I was like, that's the kind of magic that I. I like the word magic, but let's just say those are the kinds of life experiences, living experiences.

I like how you put it where it's like, that's gonna stay with her as she moves forward. And no college course, no high school course, no teacher can do that. It's life that has to do that.

And to me, if I had to sum up why we do that, why we do the education at home, it's because it allows the life experiences to do what they're kind of meant to do. And for her to have those experiences.

Herb: 00:36:04

Yeah. Now, what I hear, and the part that is, again, the magic that you're talking about is she knows that here, and everybody knows that here.

But now she knows that here. She knows that when she needs something, it's going to show up.

And having that information here and being able to move through life knowing that, oh, this is going to happen for me, I just have to hold on to it, then her life is going to be magical. As long as she holds on to that. And the way you're raising her, she's not going to have it squashed out in school.

She's not going to have it squashed out in college. She's going to be able to live that now for the rest of her life. And it's like, I struggle with that.

David Lederman: 00:36:52

That's.

Herb: 00:36:52

This what you're talking about as adults. I'm 54. We're starting. You know, we're still in this business of growing our business and all. We. We struggle with that.

And, you know, not gonna lie, There's. There's times where it's like, wow, should we be doing something different? Because that's not that that knowledge is here.

It's like, no, we have to keep going. It's here. But that we have to keep going. It's like, in the heart is a little tough sometimes. It's a little tougher. Tons.

And so now, at 10 years old, she has that. She's going to have that for the rest of her life. And that's just an absolutely amazing thing. You should write a story about that.

David Lederman: 00:37:27

Yeah. Oh, it's. Yeah, it was. I just feel very, very fortunate. I. The way she showed up. My wife and I went through a lot to even start a family.

So all that planted a perspective for us that made us look at this special child that showed up in our life differently than we would have otherwise. And, you know, I've just been very blessed to have people who've, along the way just said, just, all right, you were raised like this or this. Have.

Be open. Consider this. And I have a tremendous wife who's incredibly, you know, just an amazing mom.

And there's times where I'm just in awe that, you know, if it were just me, I probably would have screw this up a lot more. But it's just one of those things where it really.

Is this a system in a way, or an ecosystem is actually the word I like to use, because I like to bring things back to nature, and it can be really, really powerful.

And the thing that's also really cool is so often I hear, like, I have siblings now who initially were like, why you're doing the homeschooling thing? And they saw it as like, you're gonna sit with your child for hours, and I don't have that kind of time.

And I'm like, yeah, no, I was like, she loves to just take something and go do it, and I'll check it, or sometimes we'll do something together and so forth. And it's just one of those things where it. It can be how you want it to be.

That's what I would tell people, listening, it can totally align with how you want it to be. But the key is, you know, tuning into what is. Does your, what is your child saying right now? What is their day to day experience?

What is their energy like, what's their creativity like? What's their heart like? Are they connected to it or not?

And if not, you can assume that, okay, there's no other way, but there really is if you're willing to explore and experiment. And so my siblings now are starting to see, like, oh, wow, there isn't.

So now I have a niece who's educated at home and another one who's considering it.

And it's just, it's a beautiful thing to see because they were very much struggling with the social and some of the other things that we've already talked about in the school setting. And it's, they're just like, wow, this is like night and day. The kid immediately is like a flower going like, whoa. You know, they come alive again.

So I feel really, really blessed and, and fortunate. And yeah, we're going to continue this adventure and seeing where it goes, but. Sorry, go ahead.

Kristina: 00:40:06

So at the beginning, we said that there were many different ways of homeschooling. Did you and your wife kind of latch onto kind of one way unschooling, the Charlotte Mason, that this or that?

Did you latch on to kind of one way of homeschooling or are you just kind of going with the flow? Do you actually use curriculum? Like you get worksheets and stuff for some things, or do you just kind of live life and teach through that?

David Lederman: 00:40:30

So we've. There were some. I'm horrible at the names. My wife's like, good at that. Yeah, like I'm, I'm, I'm not. I know there was a couple things.

It was very much like the self directed thing. We didn't really do curriculum. I was very much the type that life's going to be the better learner, I mean, the better teacher than anything else.

We did things like, because math, you know, we, you know, we'll do things with money and budgeting and so forth to try to bring that into the real world and things of that sort. But for the most part, like, I don't care about grades, I don't care what, what, you know, I know it's important to get feedback. She gets feedback.

But actually, I'll tell you. Can I share a story about just the power of grades?

Because it was so profound because one of the things we did this year is we felt like I was at a point where I was reaching my limit of how I could really support her. And she needed some.

A little bit of structure as far as kind of the core materials that, you know, she's getting into the science and the social stuff, like social studies and things like that, where it's like, it's a little bit. I can't. It's that we need a little bit more of a deliberate kind of focus to talk about. Let's explore some things. So we're currently.

We cross paths with Bridgeway Academy, which is really cool because they have a whole curriculum that's really, really great. And we're just very low key about, you know, the.

I mean, you can make it as, like, strict and structured, or it can be as flexible as you want, but we use that as kind of a curriculum that my daughter's finding she really likes, especially with the science stuff and some of the math stuff that's a little bit more complicated. And it helps to have that.

Okay, this builds off of this in a way that I could probably do, but I'm like, they already have it, so let me just use that as. As we need to. So it's. It's kind of a hybrid is probably the best way to. To put it, but yeah, yeah.

Kristina: 00:42:23

And some of the parents that we talk to, it's like that, oh, I have to have the full curriculum. I need to follow it step by step. And that gets them in the door.

And then they realize as they're working with their child, as they're doing those passion projects with their child, or really tying into their child learning styles that, oh, I can use this as a base and just go off and do different things. Right. So some people use it as a major crutches at the beginning and then branch out. Other people, it sounds like kind of like you.

You kind of go for it and then, oh, when you find a need, then you kind of bring it in. And all of those are the beauty of homeschool, that flexibility, that way of really meeting your family and your child's needs.

Herb: 00:42:59

And the beauty is also what you talked about with your. With your siblings and their children, about how they. When they got into this system and they felt that safeness and they felt that, oh, this is.

This is about me. It's not about what everybody wants from me. It's about me. Then they just bloom. They open up, they shoot like a rocket.

You know, one of the things that. That we find is, is sometimes people come because their children are being left behind in school, they're falling behind.

And the way the school systems are set up now, there's no way to get caught up because once you miss a core lesson, oh, that was taught two weeks ago, we can't go back to that. You have to be on this page forward now. So once crazy so that then they end up taking their kids out of school or sometimes just tutoring.

But once those kids go back and feel safe and they get that bit, then they just blow past the people in the classroom. They, they just launch themselves into this learning because it becomes about them.

It becomes about, hey, I'm enjoying this, I want to learn this, I want to do that. I, I have this great story that I read now. I want to be more of a reader.

I have, you know, and so they just blow the doors off of what kids are doing in school and just launch. So, and, and so it's great that, that you had that from the beginning and your siblings, children, now you get to see the difference about.

They were held back in a way and now they're just exploding into who they are. And that's again the beauty of, of that self directedness and, and the proof that you know your children best.

You, you are your children's best teacher because you can help them follow their passion, you can help them follow their love. And once they find that, then they pull the education to them, they pull the learning to them because they love learning.

David Lederman: 00:44:56

The other thing is that it's deeply connecting if you allow it. So I think that there's a lot of pressure that parents of parents put on themselves these days.

And I think that my own personal opinion, I think there's such a disconnection that is there because of just being busy, you know, kids being at school and so forth. And so there's just a lot of struggle around what to do.

And then the sense of like, okay, if I take the kid out of school, here's this thing I at least know is a path that everybody does so the kid will not be all by themselves. You know what I mean?

But it's like when you are in a situation where like I, I would, I would say, I even said this to my siblings, like, you don't have to know what's best. What you have to be willing to do is just talk to your child, connect with your child and together explore.

And what will happen is you'll connect more deeply in a way you haven't before. You'll learn about your child in a way you haven't before. They'll teach you stuff that you haven't even realized.

Kristina: 00:45:57

Exactly.

David Lederman: 00:45:58

And, and they're gonna feel. So it's just gonna, the whole dynamic shifts on every level. And so it's almost like the pressure doesn't have to. I get it. I totally understand it.

And it's easy for me to say, having been on this side. Yeah. But it's one of those things where for me when people ask about it, you can see they're curious.

But there's almost like this sense of like, okay, if I don't know how it's all going to line up for the next 10 years.

Kristina: 00:46:23

Right.

David Lederman: 00:46:24

Then I can't, I can't even try because it's almost like that's it, it's all or nothing. And to me it's not. It really is just an experiment. And in fact I was just talking with a.

Somebody who's very, very traditional in their schooling but really, really cares about their kids as a really close relationship.

And their kid transferred out of a program that was a lot more focused on the child, allowed some in the classroom a little bit more self directed opportunities, move them to the school that was considered the top school in the town. And quickly just, the kid just went like this.

And then they realized and made them appreciate those things that they were overlooking that they're like, wow, that has so much more of an impact on my kid than the academics that are so highly rated. Because when the kid is full of anxiety and I struggle with anxiety and OCD in school, I, you know, perfectionism imposter. Like I just so much.

Because you can't not have that.

You really can't because you're, you don't know who you are and you're forced to behave in a certain way that oftentimes conflicts with what just naturally wants to come out.

And all of that coalesces into an experience where finally you go to college, you're finally on your own and it's like, holy cow, I have no idea what I'm doing here.

Kristina: 00:47:48

Right.

David Lederman: 00:47:49

It's like, does it, it's not a surprise that we see the rates of mental health issues, suicide and all these other things because it's like we're, we're putting kids on this conveyor belt.

Kristina: 00:48:00

Yep.

David Lederman: 00:48:01

And we have the best interest. I think, I believe most parents have the best intentions and interests in mind.

But it's just one of those things that it's like when you take your kid off the conveyor belt, if you don't like it, you put them right back on the conveyor belt, you know, I mean, granted, they might be a little bit behind, so to speak, but it's like they aren't. They aren't. They really aren't, like I said. So I think it's great what you guys are doing. And I. Yeah, I'm a huge fan. I think it's just. It's what a.

To have a world in which the younger generation is grounded in themselves and has the confidence to be themselves. Like, the. The world would just be a very different place.

Kristina: 00:48:40

Absolutely.

David Lederman: 00:48:41

It would. Just.

Herb: 00:48:42

If you asked a hundred people. Let's go to, like, Family Feud. If you asked 100 people what what their top three family values are, some of.

Or what their top three values are as people, some of them, most of them are going to say family. Family is going to be in the top, like 60, 70, 80%. And their children are going to be, oh, yeah, my children are the most important thing in my life.

But then they send them off to these little factories where the children are squished into this little box and their children become a thing instead of a person. And so if you really care about your family, if the family is truly your value, then you need to bring your family home.

You need to explore that at home and to let them open up and they think, oh, but I have to do this, I have to do this. Well, then your values and your priorities aren't lining up and you need to figure out. Because it's like, oh, yeah, family is my biggest value.

Kristina: 00:49:43

I have to have the money for it or I have to have this.

Herb: 00:49:45

But then you need to. To look at your priorities, because if you're not.

If, yeah, if you're not prioritizing your family, then look at your priorities, look at what you're doing, because that's really what you value. That's really what it is. And so if you really value your family, you need to start changing your priorities and putting your children first.

If they're staying in school, you need to be involved in that school. You need to learn what they're doing. You need to figure out how to help them grow within that environment.

If, and hopefully as you're doing that, you're going to realize that that environment is terrible. Like the strict school that, that, that he transferred into, and that shuts them down and do what's best for your family, whatever that is.

David Lederman: 00:50:30

Yeah, I think that's the. The greatest bit of advice or wisdom I ever got was that, like I said, your kid shows up as this sort of flower that's Here to bloom. Yeah, right.

It's here. You. You're not here to. To plant the seed. The seed's already there. Your job is just to allow that space for that, to nurture that.

And when I keep that in mind, because sometimes I have my moments. I remember when it was potty training, I was like, I don't know, it feels like she needs to be.

And my wife was very much just trusting in and like, shh. When her. She will let us know. Like, well, the cues will be there for just willing to be present and have the courage to trust.

Like you were saying, like, you are your. Your child's best teacher. You know, your child. And it's like, yes, I love the word factory because that's what I feel schools are. Right. I love.

What's his name? Ken Cirque and whatever. Who has, like, the number one YouTube talk that talks about schooling. Ken. I can't remember his name. Anyway, he. He basically.

I think he said that. I don't know if he used the word factories, but he said it's based on the Industrial revolution and a model back then.

And it's like, if you think about what if you actually were to just write down and say, okay, what are the qualities that my child's going to need to be really, really successful, happy, Whatever words you want to use in the world that's rapidly shifting and evolving. See what those are. And then see, are they. Are they getting that. Is that supported in whatever schooling environment they're in?

If it is great, all the more power to you. Chances are good it's not. And when it's not, then let that be the motivation.

Like you're saying, where it's like, then have that conversation include the kid. We met somebody who did homeschooling, and then their kid started to kind of feel like they wanted more structure.

I don't know why I didn't get into it. And it was like. And the kid was actually thriving going back to school at that point, but she already had gained so much by having a little bit of a.

I want to say a break, but some period to really get to know herself. And so it's like, again, it's like it's nothing is all or nothing. You know, I mean, it's. It's just really not.

And, yeah, every example I've seen of kids who are homeschooled, it's just like night and day. It really is.

Kristina: 00:52:53

And involved, active parents are the key.

Herb: 00:52:56

Yep. And let's go back to your book now. What is the Name of your book, what is it? Is it.

You said it's a children's series, but you just talk about one book. Are we, Are we in the process of writing more?

David Lederman: 00:53:07

There it is. There's the. Yeah, we.

Well, we've written the first five in this series where we're going to start selling this one now that it's live and available and use that to help build a kind of community around it. My daughter wants to put together a YouTube channel to just inspire kids to be creative with crafts and imagination and things of that sort.

And all the books have a really cool adventure that they go on. These two characters and their relationship evolves, their self, their. Their understanding of themselves evolves. But it's something it really.

I hated reading kids books that were just like, this is the one. Like, Ava had one book.

I don't remember what it was called, but it was something where as soon as she'd bring it to me, I'm like, I don't like this book. I don't want to read it. Not that one, not that one. You know, it's like, I want to be intrigued too.

And one of the things that's been really cool is that, like I said, we made it layered in a way where people are just like, wow, the stories, the story is really, really strong and it's subtle so you can get something out of it, even as a grownup. And so their first one's called Haba Puffy and the Magical Firewood. The second one is called Habapufi and the Mount of Miracles.

The third one's called Habapufi and the Treasure of Goo. Fourth one's called Habapufi in the island that Sinks.

Like there's these things where, like, when you hear it, it's just like, what is that going to be about? And it's. It's not what you expect.

But it's also this just heartwarming dynamic between these two friends as they go to do things that help their village or help other people or help themselves and their family and so forth in a way that they really get tested and challenged. But it's designed for kids who are between the ages of three and I would say eight, ideally, in terms of.

That's who we're trying to reach out to, kids who, you know, they can handle more than just, like I said, the one dimensional kind of stories that oftentimes are out there and the stories build off each other too. So it's something that we're. It is going to be a series and we're working on the sixth one right now and we're just going to keep going with it, so.

Kristina: 00:55:22

Excellent. So we're going to be dropping some show notes down below with some links and things. Is there a link to the book?

Is there a way that we can get a hold. The parents and audience can get a hold of you to find out?

David Lederman: 00:55:33

Yeah, the chava and poofy.com h a b a is hava and then poofy p o f y dot com there's information about the project, the book and the way to get the first copy or the first edition.

Herb: 00:55:52

And as your so much has your daughter, how close is she to getting her YouTube channel up and being online with an online community?

David Lederman: 00:56:02

We've been doing major, major travel and with a move recently, so she's got the outline of what she's going to do for the first two months. She knows exactly what she wants to do. And now we just got to actually record it and. And get it out there. So pretty soon.

Kristina: 00:56:17

Excellent. Perfect. Oh, David, this has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you for sharing your family.

Thank you for sharing your daughter the inspiration around how this can really be a benefit for families who really want to just dive in there and really tune into their children and tune into their family. So thank you so much for coming and sharing with us today.

Herb: 00:56:35

Thank you. It has been amazing.

And maybe when your daughter gets her YouTube channel up, we could have you both on because we would love to hear from her and her side of the story and get some information from her because I think that would be an amazing thing for our parents to hear and to also see a child like your daughter who's been homeschooled and who has the ability to talk to adults and to have that socialization.

So instead of just hearing about it, it would be awesome to also show them the way your daughter is as well and also to help her promote her own stuff as well. So I think that would just be an amazing thing to eventually have you both on.

Kristina: 00:57:12

When you're ready.

Herb: 00:57:13

When you're ready.

Kristina: 00:57:14

Because I know it's also protection. Right. We don't want to put our kids out there too soon, but you know, when you're ready.

David Lederman: 00:57:20

Yeah, we said for now she's not. Yeah, that's why she's not on the call now. She wants to. It's ironic, but it's like she's.

She also realizes that maybe if we did something like a live thing where it's not recorded or whatever. So it's just the people who are there can experience it. That's something that's. That's different.

But for now, yeah, we're being very mindful about the social media stuff, so, yeah.

Kristina: 00:57:44

Awesome. Beautiful. And please give her our congratulations. Great job on the book. Keep going. Keep being inspired, because we want to find out more.

Herb: 00:57:52

And I think we're going to go get the book and read it and see and check it out, because it sounds. It sounds fascinating, and I'd love to hear it.

David Lederman: 00:57:58

Awesome. Thank you. Okay. This has been great. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And, yeah, again, just. You do the same. Keep following your hearts. What?

I just got a chill saying that. Because what you're doing and how you're doing, the way you're talking, you can see there's just so much passion and heart behind what you're doing.

And, yeah, the world just needs it. So keep at it.

Kristina: 00:58:20

Thank you so very, very much.

David Lederman: 00:58:21

Thank you.

Herb: 00:58:21

Thank you.

Kristina: 00:58:22

All right, audience, until next time, take care. Make sure you have listened and found some of those gold nuggets.

Throughout the episode, make sure you follow along on Hava and Pookies adventures as they continue to be published and put out there. And we will see you next time. Bye for now.

Herb: 00:58:38

Bye for now.