S2EP22-Amanda & Aaron Johnson-Telling Tales: How to Use Storytelling as a Parenting Superpower!

Herb: 00:00:19

Today I have the pleasure of introducing Amanda Johnson and Aaron Johnson.

Amanda alchemizes 25 years of transformative experiences through story literacy, writing and narrative medicine to fulfill her mission through the Story Oracle and Saved by Story to equip individuals to use human humanity's most innate tools to transmute the pain of their backstory into more magical ever after for themselves and their loved ones and those they serve. Entrepreneurial heart.

Aaron has been both deeply involved with startups and mesmerized by the story and the hero's journey since he was a child when he began paving his own non traditional education and career paths and rediscovered some of his own potential through improv, debate and mock trial competitions, he quickly realized that every system and solution needs to be unique because every person's vision, mission and path is different.

Today he's the co founder and business wizard of Saved by Story Publishing and the conference director of the Partners in Treatment conference on Mental health. Welcome, Aaron and Amanda. It is a pleasure to have you here. Thank you very much for joining us today. I'm looking forward to this conversation.

Amanda: 00:01:36

Me too.

Aaron: 00:01:36

Yeah, thank you guys.

Kristina: 00:01:38

Absolutely. When Amanda and I were talking, like, yeah, we need to bring Aaron in on this conversation as well.

Because as we're talking to parents and helping children and really helping children blossom and grow to be happy, healthy and successful, it's like, let's bring in maybe someone who experienced this as well as what we're talking about and just bring this full circle for a parent so we know how to give those tips and hints for them. So thank you again for joining us today. Amanda, let's start with you and let's go into a little bit about your passion. Why the story? Why the oracle?

Why the deep roots in helping children and parents talk and communicate through story?

Amanda: 00:02:14

Well, my journey. First of all, thanks for having us. I saw your podcast and I was just mesmerized. I'm so.

This is one of those things that I wished I'd had when Aaron was little, kind of paving the path without individuals like you ahead on the journey. So, so, so back to when he was born.

I had just finished a classic books honors program at a university and kind of had my whole worldview, I won't say shattered, but nearly was one of those, you know, like kids go off to school and they have new ideas and. But the system that I came out of had so shaped my identity that having that question of what if it's not true? Really, really stretched me.

And the only thing that kind of saved me was that I'd had really intense experiences in my, in my religious upbringing where I knew that there were some things that could never be negotiated for me. You know, it was like, nope, I experienced that. So you can't kind of talk me out of that not happening. We can use other labels.

So I'd been through four and a half years of being stretched in all of the ways and electrically, my realizing no one had developed my critical thinking at all, realizing that I didn't have the skills to even understand my emotions, let alone communicate them to other people. And the only emotion I was feeling was rage because I felt like I was sent out into the world as this high performing student. I was a valedictorian.

I was like the one on the pedestal of my school. And yet I felt so ill equipped to face life. Not just the education that was in front of me, but just life itself.

And so, you know, I spent a few years wrestling through all of that, burning a lot of bridges with family, unfortunately. And then I get pregnant and I think, now how am I going to raise this kid to be healthy and happy and emotional?

Because I haven't exactly gathered the tools for that yet. All I've done is understood that there are really important questions to ask.

And it turned out that the, the way that I was wrestling with those in college became the way that I, I decided to raise him. You know, I was engaging the most important stories that shaped Western civilization from Homer all the way up to, you know, C.S.

lewis and, and Tokian and all of those guys. I mean, so I was engaging and immersed in these beautiful stories and sitting around tables and, you know, arguing about free will and destin.

Predestination and just all of these things that. As if we can find the answer when we're 21 years old and then have a kid and think, man, almost none of that matters right now.

How am I going to keep this child healthy? And so I used all of my tools that I had acquired. I got my teaching credential.

So I knew about self image and the expectations and how children can kind of rise and fall to the story that you apply to them. Right? They're going to be successful or they're not going to be successful, depending on how you treat them and just what you expect from them.

And so I was using all of that and I was getting great results. I mean, everyone in my life was like, wow, like, no power struggles, no nothing. But there was that, that like character development thing.

I mean, he was, he was great. And I. Character and the emotional Literacy was the part that I was just, if I don't have it, how do I share it?

And then one night my husband said, you know, I think we should start using story as. As the basis. And so that was kind of the beginning of our journey through story together.

And then, you know, turned into a full career for me, and eventually he stepped into that.

Kristina: 00:06:17

Awesome. Erin, go ahead and share a little bit about, you know, what. What inspired you to join us today.

Aaron: 00:06:23

Sounds good.

Well, I mean, from the beginning of this journey with her in, you know, writing our book together and kind of developing some of the concepts we've developed around story and how parents can use it together, you know, it was something that was imbued to me, imbued in me at a very young age as it was, and not realizing the value that it had for other people. People. Right. Is really important to see for me over the last few years.

And it's been, you know, kind of something that we've been doing, a passion of ours to come and share it with people because we think it really helps, you know, parents and the kids in their development. So.

Amanda: 00:07:00

Excellent.

Herb: 00:07:01

Yeah, I find that's really amazing. So I follow a gentleman named Dr. Jordan Peterson. May or may not have heard of him.

A lot of his current lectures series and stuff, he's been bringing up this. This topic of stories of that the. The clinical researchers have. Have narrowed it down to the.

The defining way humans move through life now is through story. And so you coming at that naturally through your own realizations of how it was helping.

There's also literature about it, but now that they've actually cemented that down to, hey, this. This really is how humanity moves through life is as story. It's like, you're ahead of the curve. So well done. So how. What were some of the.

The points that really started showing you how important the story actually is? Because everybody tells stories and it's like, oh, that's a big story. Oh, that's a fish story. Everybody is story this and story that.

But how did you get to. Oh, you know what? Everybody's talking about story. Let's use story as healing because. Because that.

That little transition there is like the wow factor for me. It's like, how did you get to there? Because everybody tells stories. How did you.

Amanda: 00:08:26

Yeah.

Herb: 00:08:27

Lift that into.

Amanda: 00:08:28

It really is so trendy now, you know, especially in the entrepreneurial space where we are. How to use your story and brand stories. And you talked about Jordan Peterson. And when I found his work, I was just like, oh, my Gosh, yes, exactly.

It's like someone who had all of the research to support everything that I knew by experience. And I mean, I didn't even know what narrative medicine was until I was 10 years into practicing it, you know, because it's an innate tool.

Because we've been, you know, our entire. All of our ancestors have been telling stories for all time.

It's the way that we, you know, figure out who we are in the world and, and why we're here. And that's what we do, is we tell stories to kind of sort that out. And I don't know, do you have a better story than this? I'm not sure.

Well, what if this character actually did this? Right. We've been doing that for millennia. And so it's such a natural thing that sometimes I've said this to Aaron.

Like, I just feel like I'm gonna get out in front of people and they're gonna be like, well, duh. And that is what happens because. Because it's the most obvious thing in the world.

And yet we all live in this culture where it's about blind consumption, right? It's. We're, we're working long hours during the day as parents. We're running around thinking about the millions of things that we have to do.

And then we get a few hours with our kids at night, and hopefully we're still sitting around the table eating together and talking about our stories from the day.

But I'll be honest, when Aaron was little, all of that rage turned into some real serious emotional and physical ailments for me, to the point that I wasn't a mommy who could like, run around and play or even create big messes and clean them up afterwards. I was pretty close to couchbound. And so we spent a lot of time in front of the tv. And I know that's always one of those things.

We had to put it in the book, like, judgment, me, whatever. But this is what we did. And it turned out to be the classroom. This was our classroom. This was our opportunity to, you know, ask questions.

And so, like I said, I was trained in the Socratic method. And when my husband said, actually, Avatar is kind of our Bible right now, I thought, oh my gosh, that's true. I'm, I'm.

You know, Peterson talks about like a well told story is like a spiritual experience, right? And that's what I was having. I'd had it with Lord of the Rings, I'd had it with the Matrix when I was in college.

And then I'm sitting there watching Finding Nemo with my kid and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is exactly how I feel. This kid is now telling me at three I'm ready for that yellow bus. And I'm thinking, I am not.

Like, literally this is what was happening in our lives when Finding Nemo came out. And so we're watching this and I'm on the couch pulling my eyes out and he's like, what's up? And I.

And so I had this opportunity to have this conversation about what happens. Kids are creative. They don't have these big fears that adults do. Right. Like, it's just, let's go out and play.

I want to make new friends and go to school and learn. And the parents are all of a sudden dealing with all of their stories about what happened their first day of school and what happened the first time.

It didn't go right with friends at school and right. It's just we pile all of our story on our K so quickly.

And so before he even got to that moment, we were able to talk about an interpersonal dynamic between us. And I was able to share even as a mom of a three or four year old. Yeah, I'm nervous because you're going back to school.

I'm going, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. Like, we're both doing new things together. And so this idea of using story out there to kind of see ourselves and identify what we're feeling. Right.

I mean, how many of us are just running like, how are you feeling today? I don't know.

And then we're addicted to this one show where that human is trying to sort out the same problem that we're dealing with and we haven't made the connections. And so, you know, it was really with him on the couch that I figured that out.

And then when I got into writing and helping individuals write their books and that was kind of the obvious thing that was happening in front of me was people were wrestling with the characters. Back to Jordan Peterson.

He says, you know, the idea of writing good stories and engaging good stories, it lets, it allows you to let everything that needs to die die on the page instead of, you know, when you take those first steps out into the world.

Herb: 00:13:04

Exactly. So one thing that you said that I would like to just put a little thing in as you, you talked about television, about television kind of being bad.

Television is a tool. It's not good or bad. We, we put so many, I call it Green Earth documentaries, stuff about the world.

We didn't Just put on, like, random, colorful, blah, blah, blah. So we, you know, I. I watched so many documentaries. The stuff that I remember, the stuff that I hold on to.

I don't know why I bring stuff up, but I'm like a walking encyclopedia at times just because of all the random knowledge that I've gotten. But. Yeah, but. But again, I. I get frustrated with shallow tv, so I don't watch garbage would be a good way to put it. So.

And when I'm talking with people, it's like, oh, I love to talk about the existential stuff and go into life and talking about the weather and what you do is like, that's what I love about this, this podcast so much, is it gives me the opportunity to, hey, poke what makes you tick. And I also do coaching, and it's really weird.

I belong to a coaching community, and we have a peer mentoring where a bunch of coaches get together and talk about kind of clients that. Problems that they're having that they might need help with.

And what's really interesting is every week somebody brings up an issue, and it's like a whole bunch of people all had that issue that week. And so it's like, it's humanity going through issues. It's not people. People do it.

But there are so many people going through the same things at the same time. And using that story to connect those people allows people to not feel alone, to feel like, oh, there's more people like me.

And then they like, oh, this person in this story took that pain and did this. And maybe I can do that. And so I'm seeing that kind of develop into. Into what you're saying. Is this. How. Is this how it came about? Am I. Am I.

I'm trying to, like, predict this. It's like, oh, this is a good story here. And I'm trying to jump ahead.

Aaron: 00:15:13

Yeah, I mean, every good story has patterns that permeate. Right. Like, every part of life. They're like. They're these core concepts. Some people call them archetypes that are, like, truer than true.

Herb: 00:15:23

Right.

Aaron: 00:15:23

They're like, beyond true. They're so true that everyone can see it and relate that to a different part of their life. Because, right, everyone.

It's that human experience component. And there was for sure, like, one big, like, aha moment for my mom and I when we were. Well, I was in high school still, and.

And I had come out of a class called, like, the Human Spark or something like that. And it was a class that. Where we explored, like, scientific advancements and what the future of humanity looked like, technology. Right.

That sort of thing.

And the topic for that day that we were talking about was, you know, the fact that I, I might have the chance to choose immortality or something close to it with the break that, you know, medical science is advancing, you know, before I die. So the question became like, would you want to pursue that? Like, is like, would you want to live forever?

And, and so, you know, I got the car, mom was like, how's your day? I was like, it's good, you know, and kind of talked a little bit about what had happened in that class.

And, and so she had asked me and she was like, would you choose immortality if you had the chance? And my answer was no. And it was a pretty quick answer. And she was like, you know, a little taken aback by that, I suppose, like, why is that?

And my reasoning was structured on some of the story that I had experienced on the screen mostly. Right. There's a lot of play in stories, especially in like sci fi worlds, right, where you talk about immortality and what that might do to someone.

And you know, the reasoning was that if I had an unlimited amount of time, the time that I had would be a little less valuable to me. Right. And the time that what I, you know, did it with that time, I might not have the same drive, right. To do so.

So she had seen that I had taken, you know, several stories and kind of, you know, walked in some characters footsteps and related that to the real world. And then that drive, we realized that this was something that actually crafted at least a critical thinking process, if not a moral compass.

And that's when we saw kind of the long term development of those Socratic principles with story.

Amanda: 00:17:26

The experiment worked. I was stunned. I mean, I remember Erin and I have talked about this.

We have so many car moments where I just feel like as a parent I need to pull over on the way home because it's, you know, these little notes like this that we have around story and the stories that are, that we've engaged on screen, connecting with the stories that are happening at school, connected with the stories that are happening in the friend space. So it's pretty magical.

Herb: 00:17:55

Yeah, I can, I can track some of my political beliefs to certain books that I read as a teenager.

I can track certain of the way that I interact with certain people based on stuff that I read as a kid that I was like, okay, that is a good way to be and I'm going to choose to be that way. Some of that actually caused me bullying and pain because of the. Of the.

Of the high road that I chose to take based on the information that was available to me. And so by not dropping down, that allowed, you know, that. That allowed me to get picked on a lot.

But at the same time, it created a character resonance, resilience within me at the same time. So those books, those stories, those things that I read gave me pieces and parts of myself that I wanted to be, that I wanted to implement.

Amanda: 00:18:47

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty fun. Go ahead.

Kristina: 00:18:51

I was gonna say, let's jump into an idea for parents really quick. We're talking about using stories to help develop moral compasses and help develop ideas.

And so you were talking about, you know, you sat in front of the TV and you were very sure about, you know, oh, well, kind of waste of time. Not really the thing I want to do to help teach my child.

But I think a lot of it goes back to the key piece of you were having discussions around the television, around the story.

So my question is, what tip or hint can you give maybe a set of questions or a question or two that can kind of go with almost any story that would help those parents kind of develop that conversation with their kids? Kind of know where I'm going.

Amanda: 00:19:29

Mm. Yeah. So for me, one of my favorite questions to ask still to this day is, who's your favorite character?

Because from the beginning, this kid has completely shocked me every time. Who do you think he chose in Harry Potter? Wouldn't every child around 10 or 11 years old say Harry Potter?

Kristina: 00:19:50

Right.

Amanda: 00:19:51

He told me it was.

Herb: 00:19:53

I'm more of a support role. I liked Ron's role better.

Amanda: 00:19:56

Okay, okay.

Herb: 00:19:57

See, just kind of. I'm better at support a lot of times.

Amanda: 00:20:00

So there you go.

Herb: 00:20:01

Somebody else be. Be the front guy.

Amanda: 00:20:04

And I kind of liked Hermione because she was kind of. She was really smart, kind of mouthy. Right. Kept everyone in line. I really. I would have loved to have embodied a little more of that growing up.

But he said, Professor McGonagall. And I thought, what in the world? And. And so I asked about it. Well, what do you like about her? Well, she's, you know, she's kind of playful.

Like, they're always getting in trouble and breaking the rules, and she's not. She doesn't come down with a real heavy fist, but she understands what their real intentions are. Right.

And so as he's unpacking all of this, what I'm hearing is that he really wants a teacher. Like, he's looking for a magical teacher in his world.

Who can help him use his magic, understand that this guy has been an entrepreneur since he was little. He's all, he's always been about, pushing the, the boundaries of what rules, why, why those rules? But what if I do it like this? Right?

And so he needed a mentor like that who could give him that scope. And so that was one of those things that gave me so much insight into where he was at that particular time.

And it was right after I had to pull him out of a school because of a really bad teacher moment.

Herb: 00:23:03

So whatever book or movie or whatever you're watching, you ask which of these is your favorite character and why?

Kristina: 00:23:10

Figure out why.

Amanda: 00:23:12

And if you have the opportunity. You know, a lot of times we resonate with characters that we're aspiring to, right?

So he, in his case, he was, he was like, I need that, that's, that's someone that I need in my life. But we've had other moments.

Aaron, Remember when we started watching Yellowstone and we watched the first few episodes and when we turned it off and we looked at each other and we both knew the question we were going to ask and neither one of us wanted to answer it. Who's your favorite character? And he said, I don't, I don't really want to say. And for us it was Beth from Yellowstone and she was pretty bad.

She's awful, right?

Herb: 00:23:53

Geez, she's amazing.

Amanda: 00:23:55

So I don't really want to. So that aspirational thing, right?

It's not like I want to be a super broken 30 something who's like drinking too much and doing all these things at the extreme, but I needed a little bit more of her intensity and confidence. And confidence. And that, that sense, like when you walk into a room like, everyone knows not to mess with you. Because I was bullied too. Right.

And so Aaron and I were actually in a situation with a community that we were part of where we were starting to feel bullied. And so the fact that both of us kind of went, we need more of that, you know, it was so telling.

And it, and it immediately connected us on like what we were working on right then in our own personal and professional lives.

Herb: 00:24:47

So as a result of this and growing up, how do you like working with your mom? How did that come about?

Because I gotta say, not a lot of kids are gonna, hey, hey, mom, let's go start a business or hey, I like what you're doing, mom, let me jump in and help you build. That's, that's not a real common thing. So congratulations on the Family bond there. That, that's sure.

But, but how did you come about to, to working and becoming a CEO with your mom?

Aaron: 00:25:13

Well, there's definitely a DNA component there, just because our family's been known for family businesses for, for a few generations. But I mean, ever since I was really, really little, I was involved with her business. Right.

Whatever that was, whether it was on the content or copy editing piece of things all the way through her know, book, more book coaching services. And just throughout, I was involved pretty regularly. Tech support, tech support, emotional support.

You know, I would, I would pick up some of the, some of the tasks that were, you know, age appropriate that I could, you know, contribute to just because I was interested in like, hey, make a few dollars, but also try something new, you know, like find grammatical errors in a manuscript or, you know, whatever. Um, and so just, I guess little by little it was just how, how it was and how it's kind of always been. And I enjoy it. So, yeah, it's fun.

Herb: 00:26:12

So that's, that's about how reading other people's stories can help with your life. Another part of what you do is you help people write stories to start changing their life.

Tell us a little bit about that and how you work with people and how you get started with that with people, because that's, that's also pretty fascinating to me.

Amanda: 00:26:32

Yeah. So when he, when he went to school, mommy went to start a business that she had no idea what she was doing.

I have a background of entrepreneurship, but it never occurred to me I was going to be a teacher. And, and so I became an editor.

First I went to a large group of individuals who said, I'm not really interested in you teaching me how to write well, I'm really interested in helping having you fix what I've been writing because it's not doing the job. And that was when I started to realize that what was missing out of most of these manuscripts was their story.

And because their story was missing, the engagement was missing. Like the why, you know, I didn't know why they cared about the message. I didn't, I couldn't see the steps that they were taking.

And more importantly than the steps, because some of them would write out the steps beautifully, but I couldn't see, see the emotional experience that it was to take those steps because, you know, you make that look really easy now 10 years in. But how did it feel the first time you took that step? Because that's where your reader is at.

And so I began to ask them to insert more of Their story.

And that's when I realized one, why they weren't writing effectively, even if they were getting it done, and two, why some of them couldn't write at all, because they were running headlong into these parts of their story that they didn't want to tell because they'd fixed that relationship and didn't want to, you know, overturn that stuff or, you know, or there was a big open wound and they were like, I. I don't know how I made it through that, but you can't make me go back and deal with that. And what I found was some of.

Herb: 00:28:07

The shame, some of the embarrassment, you know, to. To. To. To get to the point to be successful in an entrepreneurship, you have to. You have to hurt yourself. Not, not like physically, but.

But you got to go through some stuff. And, and yeah, it can be really painful. You know, pieces of. You have to die for the new part of you to emerge.

And an entrepreneurship is a really, really big change.

Amanda: 00:28:35

Yeah.

And next to parenting, it was the biggest transformative, like, spiritual journey for me because it really was about wrestling out who I was going to be in the world and if I was that yet, or what I needed to develop, you know, was this giant hero's journey that I was taking.

And then I had these individuals, some of whom had already succeeded as entrepreneurs, and yet as they turned around to share what they had gained and this, you know, the elixir at the end of the story, there were still parts that they didn't want to share because they didn't realize that those were the parts that were going to most deeply connect them to their audience.

And so my work became not just writing partnership, helping them to figure out how to do the storytelling, how to weave all of it together powerfully, but really it was a partnership in the transformational component and figuring out the importance of having a safe community around you while you're exploring these old stories. And Jordan Peterson.

Herb: 00:29:34

It's like the best progress forward. The way you move forward is to go into the things that you want to go into the least.

So you go into the darkest parts of your story and you put light in there.

Amanda: 00:29:46

And that's exactly.

Herb: 00:29:47

And. And that's. It's so easy to do, or so I should say. It's so simple to do, but it's not easy. It's like, I. That's. That's for me. I. That's not for you.

And it's like, But. But sharing that gives. Gives me to you in a way that. That is important.

Amanda: 00:30:08

Yeah. And doing it in a safe place for the first time is really, really important.

So that's why Aaron got involved because, you know, I would ask him to do little things, but I also invite him to retreats, not to hang out for the whole time because, you know, age appropriate, lots of stories that he shouldn't have been listening to at the time. But he would come over for dinner and his dad would come over and they'd hang out.

And so he just became part of the, the community that kept growing and coming back around and, and growing together. And so I think that's kind of what, what got you hooked as far as, you know, the publishing goes.

That's, that's really his inspiration because, well, you can tell that story.

Aaron: 00:30:52

Yeah, sounds good.

Amanda: 00:30:53

Well, back to that emotional support thing.

Aaron: 00:30:58

Well, as she was, you know, helping folks, you know, develop their manuscripts, work through some of like we were talking about these blockages or these traumas or whatever it was, you know, she was also helping people, you know, self publish their books. And some of those folks developing their manuscript wanted to go to other publishers.

They wanted to go to traditional publishers and hybrid publishers. Right. And not just self publish.

And so some of those people, you know, you, you work for them, you work with them for nine to 12 months, you create this like really, or longer in this really strong bond. You're helping them with their story. They've become, you know, basically family and now you're giving them, you know, over to this, this publisher.

And, and a lot of the time they were not treated very well and their books did not come out the way that they wanted them to and they changed, you know, the, the language and, and you know, it no longer reflects the voice of the author or they're getting the design elements wrong and it's no longer aligned with their brand and their business. Right.

All these things that we started noticing and I don't remember the year, but at one point we, there were just these two back to back projects that were so kind of heinous with other publishers that, you know, well, mom was infuriated because then she had to step in and actually do a lot of the work of the publisher. And my aunt, her sister is a designer, is helping with like help, you know, with the covers and fix the covers and whatever.

And at a certain point I just looked at mom and I was like, we already do a lot of these things. Why don't we just do it and with a little bit more, you know, integrity and care for the author, the author's journey and Also what.

You know, bringing their voice and what they want into the book. So that's kind of how our publishing house, Saved by Story, was. Was formed.

Amanda: 00:32:48

Yeah.

Kristina: 00:32:48

That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, you can just see the natural progression of that. Like, Right.

You put so much into the beginning part and then let somebody else mess it up at the end is totally ridiculous. You know, it's like kids and their projects, right?

They put so much effort into the beginning pages, and then a teacher or an art person or somebody comes along. Oh, no, it should really go like this. And it's not what the kid was thinking.

Aaron: 00:33:10

Right, right.

Amanda: 00:33:11

Exactly. Exactly that.

Herb: 00:33:13

And I remember sometimes of that happening in my life and. And the fact that it was when I was 16, and I still remember it at 55, 40 years later. And it was such a real small little thing. I had a bike.

I'd taken it all apart.

I'd gotten every bit ready to be painted, and I was going to put a little tiny coat on, and then every day I was going to put a little tiny coat on and get a real thick. And my dad came out like, oh, hey, that's good. And he got the paint and he just, like, slathered it on. And.

And so my weeks of work into getting it just how I wanted, and at the final step, my dad just came in and just dumped pain on it. I'm like, so 40 years later, I still remember that. I love my dad. We had a great relationship, but just, you know, those little. Those little.

You did all this work and then somebody come in and didn't finish it.

Amanda: 00:34:03

Yeah.

Herb: 00:34:03

The way you want, the work that you put in, it should have been finished better. And you recognize that. And it's like, you know what? This isn't happening. This needs to happen. Let's step up and put that together.

Amanda: 00:34:17

Yep. Yeah. Well done.

Herb: 00:34:18

It's our problem. And you figured out how to make money from it.

Amanda: 00:34:22

Yeah, yeah. And he does that. Does that really well. But, you know, as it relates to the.

To the publishing process, what ends up happening is a lot of those things that happen in the machine are things that re. Traumatize. Like, it's almost like the opportunity for them to prove that they've done all of the work through the writing. Right.

But if they're doing that in other spaces and they don't realize what's happening, it's just more trauma and. And it's, you know, so we look at those things. Everything doesn't go perfectly here. When something happens, we all look at each other and Go.

Okay, what else is going on here? What story is afoot that needs to be explored? So that's the. That's one of the special parts.

Kristina: 00:35:08

Yeah.

And I love that, because if you're thinking through the parenting lens, whenever your child is doing something and then all of a sudden it goes sideways again, look deeper into that story.

What story is a child telling themselves in their head, or what did they just experience that went sideways and didn't fulfill the story that they thought was going to happen? Right. And so you can really dig in and figure out what's going on with the kiddo.

And is there a way to either help solve it or let them work through it on their own? Whatever needs to be done to help it.

Amanda: 00:35:38

Yeah.

Kristina: 00:35:38

Come out to the best outcome.

Amanda: 00:35:40

Yeah. And, you know, you asked about other questions and things.

One of the things that occurs to me as you say that is, you know, we talk in our book about superpowers and shadows or superpowers in kryptonite in the self knowledge section.

And it's such a good opportunity for kids to see themselves and, and understand that the reason why they're wanting to be like that is because they have. They have a call to be like that. They have a natural inclination. And now we need a mentor to develop it.

And one of the interesting things about the superpowers is that they seem to all have little shadow material to them. They have an underbelly. Right.

And so when Aaron was very little, you're talking about how to address these things that are happening, I saw this creative superpower in him. He was a storyteller. And then he tried to be a liar, and he was creating the most marvelous stories. And you know, that.

That moment as a parent where you're like, I wish I could just run to the bathroom right now and die laughing, because this is epic. Like, this is an epic story. And so, you know, being able to look at our kids and see that just like the.

Our heroes in the movies, there are things that are going to come so easily and natural to them. And, you know, as it relates to Aaron with his, he's always been entrepreneurial and visionary and like a leader, natural born leader.

And so when he said, let's start a business, it didn't surprise me because it's just how he's been thinking his entire life. And yet one of the things that is his absolute strength and superpower is his ability to think ahead.

He's a systems guy, so he's going to think through all of the things that could possibly go wrong as we go through this process. And so the shadow of that is getting anxious when he's not taking care of himself. Right.

Because he's living outside in the future a little bit too much as part of his natural superpower. So it was one of those things that I would always say, remember, Aaron, how many times did I say this?

Like, you're a natural born leader, and you have to remember how to, like, come back here and stay regulated so that you can continue to operate in your superpower without it, like, burning you out. And so just another little tip for the parents.

Kristina: 00:38:01

So, Erin, something that maybe that we haven't touched on, that you were thinking we wanted to go to today. Is there something about the. The business, the story, the helping kids share their story that maybe you wanted to share?

Aaron: 00:38:14

You know, I think that the biggest thing, you know, for my. My lenses, just try it out, right?

Like, for parents, what mom used to do as a tip for anyone while you're watching a show or a movie is like, just pause the show. I know she did that to me all the time. And I would look at her from the couch and give her, like, the biggest eye roll ever and be like. And.

But then, you know, eventually know what was happening and that she was going to ask me a question.

But seriously, like, if there's a moment and something that you guys are watching, like, you know, whether it's an epic tale or not, but there's always a crucible moment to ask, right? To stop and pause and be like, wait a minute. We're not just. We're not just watching this, like, what's actually going on?

What's the intention behind this? And what can we gain from it?

That's a, like, that's a super easy thing to do to start that conversation rather than relying on trying to come back to it after the fact.

It's actually a lot easier to sit in the middle of a story and freeze for a second than, like, try and remember, like, all the little details before, right? It's a. It's a pretty cool experience.

Herb: 00:39:23

Yeah, that's a great family experience. I'm gonna go back to Jordan Peterson. So we were. We were watching his as a family. Actually. I started watching it his. His new series on the Gospels.

And he's. He's sitting around a table with eight or 10 other people, and they're having a discussion on the Gospels from many different points of view.

And I started watching that. And then my mom came in and sat down and started. And it's like, a 10 part series. And so she's like, oh, are you going to watch that again?

We started watching it and at different points we would like, she was. She would ask me a question, we would stop it, pause it, rewind it, hear the words again, and then have a conversation over the.

What they were talking about how we didn't understand that that meeting was there before and just have a roundtable discussion and then pick back up and see if they said any of the things that we said. It was like super entertaining and fabulous.

And as when, when we had our granddaughter when she was 4 and 5, we would take her places in the car and we would start having makeup stories. So she would start a story and we would say, oh. And then we would kind of build on it. It's like, oh, where's it going now? And then build on it.

And so some of the story times with our granddaughter was some of the best memories that I still have.

Kristina: 00:40:44

And especially the same way when I was reading a story out loud to my classroom, right. I would do the same thing. I would stop. It's like, well, what did that mean? Or what did that character, why did that character just do that?

Amanda: 00:40:54

Right.

Kristina: 00:40:54

That discussion throughout the story. Not so much that you break up the story, they can't understand it, but enough that it's like, oh, this was an important part.

So I love that you mentioned that.

Aaron: 00:41:04

Yeah. And especially with those guys in the Bible series that they do.

Like, first of all, those guys are just like on another plane of like intellectual conversations.

Herb: 00:41:14

They know their material.

Aaron: 00:41:15

Like, we would watch those and we would literally be like, I've never felt like brain fatigue this bad in my life trying to follow exactly what it is that they were trying to say. So like lots of breaks were. Especially because there were like what, two, three hours? Some of them, like, some of are really long.

But also like if we're talking about archetypes and.

Herb: 00:41:36

Right.

Aaron: 00:41:37

And concepts that are so deep and like I was saying earlier, truer than true. There's like an infinite amount of number of layers to a conversation that can be had. Right.

Whether they relate to the story that you're actually watching or your own personal life or something else. Right. It's just, it just keeps going like you'll like in the Bible series, right?

They're just like, oh, it relates to this part and this part and this part. Because it's all the same pattern, right. That kind of shows up in, in our lives.

Herb: 00:42:04

And I have one more interesting question because we are about education in school. How did this relationship, this business, how did this affect you going through school and what was your schooling like?

Was it, were you at all homeschooled? Because it said that you had kind of an individual, but then you talked about high school.

So what was your education like and how did working these businesses and the story with your mom fit into all of that?

Aaron: 00:42:29

Absolutely. I had a very unconventional educational path. I started out in I guess preschool. Right.

I think I was in pretty housing preschool, Montessori school from pre K until about second grade. That was a really great experience. Except for that last year because I had a really like weird.

That was the teacher we were talking about like wild experience that was just like, nope. They went, they went up to second grade anyway, so it was time to find something else.

And so after that I went to a public charter school that was three days at school, two days at home. So it was a little bit of a hybrid in person homeschool situation. That's pretty good.

Teachers had a lot of flexibility to teach, you know, their curriculum that they wanted to teach as well, which is, which really helped. And I have some really great teachers there, did that from third grade to seventh grade, eighth grade.

We had just moved to Oregon and weren't really sure like where what to do for school. So we actually started doing the K12 online, the public online school, homeschool.

I really did not like that, that I did not thrive in that because there was like no connection and the curriculum was not motivating. It felt very robotic. We had a moment that I think we actually read, wrote about the book where it was just like no, this is, we're done.

Like we're not doing this. So high school I went to, it's kind of like a college for high school students is the way I like to describe it. It's called Village Home.

They're a non accredited high school.

But I went to an online charter school that allowed me to prove proficiency through those classes and go on a unique path to get my diploma while still going to Village Home. So but that is probably where most of my core development happened in just in my capacity as a human. That's where like improv came in.

Mock trial speaking and communication and the especially like critical thinking as it related to, you know, the school paper or mock trial. Just. It really just fleshed me out. Honestly, I don't know how to say other than that.

So that was my experience and we started the business kind of in the last year there, right in senior year. I went crazy in my second and Third years of high school and did as many classes as I could.

So I had a little bit of time in my senior year to explore some other things like that, see if I wanted to go to college or not.

Kristina: 00:45:07

I love that. And that's part of what we really advocate for here at Vibrant Families. That great fit education for your child.

It might be that you have the perfect public school. Awesome. Go for it. You might need to have this mix and match back and forth or, or different seasons through your child's life. Like with you.

What's the best fit homeschool, charter school online, whatever. That is awesome that you had that eclectic kind of education.

But it fit your needs and it shows because you're still wanting to learn, you're still creating, you're still doing all of these things. And that's what we want our children to grow up and be happy, healthy and successful. So that's awesome.

Aaron: 00:45:45

Yeah, a great journey. I wouldn't change it.

Herb: 00:45:48

So did you go to college?

Aaron: 00:45:49

I did not. I considered it for a while. Took, I was like, all right, I'll take a gap year. But honestly, few reasons for deciding not to go that route.

First of all, you got the debt situation and just how expensive school is now. But there's a few online resources that you know are pretty reasonable out there that I was exploring. You'll get too much debt.

But it was, I wasn't going to explore anything that I truly felt passionate about. And additionally, I just work best when I have a mentor and I'm hands on at something.

So like I really wanted to find a job that would put me on the right career path and find an in somewhere where I could develop those skills as I, as I went. Right. And so yeah, that's kind of what I ended up finding.

If I hadn't found that, I probably would have ended up going to college after a little bit of time. But I'm doing pretty great now. I think I'm a little bit.

Herb: 00:46:45

That's kind of what I try and help parents and people with is, is the finding the individual way to go through school. And as an entrepreneur, you know about business development, you know about personal development, you're always working on that.

You go take a class for six months, you get really good at it. You go take your next class for six months, you get really good at it.

And so part of, part of our school system and part of what we really like to have our parents do is to start teaching their kids like that. So instead of like year long curriculum, it's like three months, six months, get really good at it, find out what you want to do.

Is this really where I want to go? Do I want more of this? Great, go. Oh, no. Let's go this way now.

So it's like, get in, find it quick, fail it quick, find out what you want, and then move along.

Then by the time you get out of high school, you're like, super competent, master in like three or four or five different disciplines instead of trying to figure out what you want to do with one.

Aaron: 00:47:39

Well, and if I ever want to go back and get a degree, like, it's going to be a lot easier to do in the future. And, you know, you go and get a job, it's like you're going to learn the main things at school.

But, like, what are all the other millions of things that you have to work on that you don't think about till you have a job? Right. And so you know that that's been a great experience too. I'm very thankful.

Kristina: 00:48:01

So, Amanda, what was your input?

I mean, did you just kind of follow his guide, his where he wanted to go, or was this kind of a plan that you had, or it just kind of worked out the way it did?

Amanda: 00:48:12

You know, his agency in every single area of his life was the most important thing for me because that was what I felt like I did not have.

And so from, you know, what he was going to believe about himself in the world all the way down to where he was going to go to school, I felt like my job was to present him with a whole bunch of options and let him explore and stay very connected to him and help him to sort of make sure that he was staying connected to his experience in it. And so, you know, like he said, Montessori was fantastic.

The other place I really liked because just the season we were in, we were actually caregiving my grandmother during that time. And so it was nice to have him home a few days a week. He, she, she loved him and having him around made everything easier.

And also he'd finish his work really quickly and be able to do other things. You know, he was already creating other businesses, so it kind of gave him a lot more agency.

And then that break here, I, I, we didn't know what to do.

And part of the reason why I chose homeschool with him kind of, kind of nudged him in that direction was because we were coming out of really challenging caregiving situation. She developed dementia and was becoming horrible to, to live with. And I saw the wear and tear that it had taken on him.

And so my hope was that he would be at home.

He'd be able to kind of settle and regulate his nervous system and let go of all of that stuff and not necessarily have to be in, like, new, unknown territory. Having to sort all of that out at a very tricky age. Right. Like 12, 13 years old is so many things going on. And so, you know, he, he.

He did not like it, but he was rested in it until it was time. And that's what I knew. Like, he's better enough. He's ready to take on the next challenge.

And then when we got to college, it this as it has done our entire lives. The stories always connect. And so I remember he was going to look at an academy up there. That was just.

It was a really cool option, very similar to what he was experiencing at Village Home, but in a. In a, like an AA sort of program. And I remember driving home and him saying this. You know, I just wish I could go someplace and get some experience.

And I just had one of my clients literally that morning say to me, I want to create a space that connects mentors with young people. But I don't know how to do all the technology to create the space.

And so I went, how about you take a little gap here and work with me and one of the clients to help this vision become a reality? And so that was kind of his. His deep step into the business as far as getting immersed. And after that, I knew he would probably not go to college.

Kristina: 00:51:10

Absolutely.

Oh, this has been a wonderful conversation and I so appreciate, you know, your openness and sharing and weaving everything back and forth and connecting and everything. So, Amanda, can you share with parents if they're like, oh, this is really something I want to deep dive into?

I really want to talk to Amanda and do some more with us. Can you share your contact information for them? Of course. It will all be down in the show notes as well.

Amanda: 00:51:33

Yeah. So I would say head over to the story oracle.

It's www.the hyphen story oracle.com and that's the space where I'm taking all of the narrative work that I've accumulated helping individuals who come to us for writing and publishing. I'm taking it out into spaces with parents and educators and therapists and people who can use that to accelerate what they're doing.

So that's the best place to contact me.

Kristina: 00:52:02

Excellent. And Aaron, if somebody wants to publish a book, let them know how to get hold of you so you can help them out.

Aaron: 00:52:09

Absolutely. If you want to write or publish a book, you can go to savedbystory House and there's a way to get in contact with us there.

Kristina: 00:52:17

Excellent.

Herb: 00:52:18

And all that information will be down in the show notes. You don't have to remember it. Just click on the notes when you're leaving your comment and clicking the like button.

Kristina: 00:52:26

Right.

Herb: 00:52:26

All that good stuff, it'll be right there next to all of that for you to. To find them.

Kristina: 00:52:32

Yep.

Herb: 00:52:33

Wonderful.

Kristina: 00:52:33

Well, thank you again for being on our show, bringing education home. Thank you, parents and audience for listening.

Take those golden nuggets that you've heard throughout the show and make sure that you weave them into the story of your life.

And make sure that you use them, bring them out and use them each and every day with your children to help them grow up to be happy, healthy, and successful.

Herb: 00:52:52

And as always, I would like to thank both of you because, you know, as you're familiar with the hero's journey and the hero's story, you are both on it.

You've been out there, you've slayed your dragon, you, and you're coming back to tell your story to the community and to help make other people's life and journey easier.

Where so many people these days see problems and complain about it, you guys are out there and you're seeing problems and you're creating solutions to help other people, and that makes you a hero. That makes you out there on the edge doing the work. And you are my hero. So thank you very much for being here. Thank you for helping other people.

What you do really matters and is really appreciated.

Amanda: 00:53:30

Thank you so much for having us.

Aaron: 00:53:32

Appreciate it. And there's many more dragons to slay.

Kristina: 00:53:36

Yes, more. Many, many more. May it be successful and fruitful along the way. Exactly. All right, audience, you know what to do.

Share this audio podcast and video podcast with everybody.

There are parents out there who need this information to help them along on their parenting journey so that their children can be happy, healthy and successful and have a great, fit education. Until next time. We will talk to you later. Bye for now.

Herb: 00:54:02

Bye.